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KOH based glycerin
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OK... I like the others am looking for an awesome recipe for KOH base glycerin soap. I do not mind at all if it is liquid soap.

Thanks,
Bioswissy
 
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania | Registered: April 13, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gentlemen,

Please pay your respects to our soap king... Mr. Legal Eagle

http://www.b100wh.com/barsoap1.html#black


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- 05 Duramax on Bio
- 02 VW Jetta TDI on Bio
 
Location: Sweet Home Alabama | Registered: February 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I can't find any reference to KOH there...
 
Location: Western NY | Registered: September 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sorry Bob. I agree Legal uses NaOH... Do a search here. There are several that have toyed with a KOH receipe...

I have successfully made liquid soap following Legal's page as a guide....

Good Luck.


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- 05 Duramax on Bio
- 02 VW Jetta TDI on Bio
 
Location: Sweet Home Alabama | Registered: February 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You guys have to remember that according to Todd over at JtF it is impossible to make soap from the glycerine by-product. .
Ok, sorry, I just had to do that.
I can only speculate about this as I use NaOH exclusively, and as the anointed soap box king (that was it right?) I shall further a opinion.
If using an oil glyc that wants to remain liquid, like say liquid canola (rape seed) it should be a simple matter; add about 40-50gr KOH to the litre disolved in the water before hand. This *should* do it. (my opinion not based on anything but speculative guess work). Voila! liquid soap. This should also hold true for other types of glyc as well, except that perhaps the volume of water will need to be toyed with a bit.
It should lather well, and clean even better. We use the liquid stuff here for dishes all the time, but it is NaOH based soap. I suspect that liquid soap with KOH should be even easier. I will be conducting a test on this theory soon as I have a small bit of KOH hanging around here somewhere.
I copied out a recipe for making bar soap from a KOH based glyc. I believe it was greasyfireman who posted it. I am sorry I neglected to copy the author, so if it is you please own up to your work so credit can go to where it belongs. Here it is:
...............................................

"The wife and I have been working on the soap.I make the bio w/KOH, she makes the soap w/NAOH.
WE have been getting had bars now every batch.The KOH makes a liquid glycerine as you all know,
the first thing we found was to get ALL the methanol boiled/distilled out.We heat the glycerine to
about 200 deg f.This makes sure no methanol is left after the still.To the glycerine we add 300ml
water per L glycerine and 100g NAOH per L glycerine.Yes WE know this sounds like WAAAY TOOO
much,but read about soap making using "red devil" doing backwards math from the
contents/percentages in it it sounded reasonable.We started out with the 30 g/L ended up with
pudding,60g/L thicker pudding,90g/L bars but like wetsuit material,120g/l solid bars at about 100
deg F,backed off some.We usually heat and stir,mix in the NAOH/water, mix for 10 min,mix for
10 more. We add oatmeal/cinnamon at the end of the last 10 min mix,stir till well mixed then pour.
.Wrap molds in towels let set over night cut bars 24 hours later.Let the bars set to dry/cure 3 or 4
weeks.We have used them as soon as 2 weeks still worked well.*We found this interesting.Its called
a tongue test. Touch your tongue to the fresh soap it" ll sting(different but not painfull)after it has
cured a tongue test will result in just a soapy flavor.This is a test for lye."
...............................................



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Legal... I mean Soap making King..



You are right the recipe was from GreasyFireman. I have tried it several times only partially successful. I beleive my problem (as you point out in your comments) was the water content. I do a 5% prewash and this causes obvious issues.

I tried your "liquid soap" recipe from your website and it worked well. (lathers and cleans great) My only oberservation is that the saop is very thin. This due to my prewash.

I will reduce the water for my next soap batch and report back...

Cheers!


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- 05 Duramax on Bio
- 02 VW Jetta TDI on Bio
 
Location: Sweet Home Alabama | Registered: February 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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It is possible to make solid bar soaps using KOH based glycerin.

We made some last year using it. It definitely isn't as "hard" as soap made from NaOH based glycerin, but it was really nice to use.

It "lathered" more than the NaOH based stuff too.


Here's what some of it looked like:



It was much more translucent than the NaOH based stuff too. You could see light right through it.

I've held on to a few of these bars just to show people that come visit that it is possible to make soap from Biodiesel glycerin.

-Graydon




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Location: Utah | Registered: October 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
It "lathered" more than the NaOH based stuff too.


Tsk tsk tsk. On what is this statement based ?

The soap I make is entirely NaOH based and it lathers plenty, as witnessed by the hair washing pic on my soap page, which is an old pic and the soap has upgraded since then to lather even better and more abundantly.

It is creamy also, but rinses away completely clean and squeeky (for both hair and body).
I think the statement is misleading unless qualified to a personal experience.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I tried soap he made from NaOH and from KOH.
The KOH soap lathered much more than the NaOH soap.

The NaOH stuff lasted a lot longer though.
The KOH stuff was much softer but lathered up much more.

I had two bars in the shower. One one NaOH based & one was KOH based. I admit it was a subjective test, but the difference was really quite apparent.

-Graydon
squeaky clean from showering Wink




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Location: Utah | Registered: October 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just a thought.

Would it be a good idea to use washwater as the solvent for the lye which we add to by-product when making soap?

The soap content of the ultimate soap would inevitably be higher would it not? (at the cost of what contaminants/precision?)


No waste but what we make...
 
Location: Gatwick | Registered: January 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Would it be a good idea to use washwater as the solvent for the lye which we add to by-product when making soap?


Methanol content makes it a non-starter.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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ahh, now I admit I made a silly mistake there which only hit me this afternoon as I drew off some washwater... but sticking with this idea - Washwater contains a fair bit of soap. The problem with 'glycerol-soap' is it contains relatively little soap to glycerol right?

Maybe it's not worth the heat cost but,

- Given the methanol is driven off from glycerol by-product using heat
- and the ratio of water to glycerol in the soap making process is fairly low

then perhaps it makes sense to use concentrated washwater from the initial wash containing lots of soap and methanol and drive off the methanol before combining it with glycerol to make soap!

(Anything sounds good after my prescribed post-meth exposure beer! ;-)


No waste but what we make...
 
Location: Gatwick | Registered: January 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Water and methanol are 100% miscible and you will find it most difficult to extract the water from the methanol without a fair amount of energy and expense input. Kind of defeating the purpose.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My liquid KOH glycerin/KOH recipe made this liquid soap with a sediment.settled liquid.

A slight swirl gives this opelecent look...swirled gently

What is this sediment?
Should I decant it off? Or is it good stuff?
Can I keep it in suspension somehow?

The KOH liquid soap is excellent on my dry skin and psoriosis, and scally feet.

Why does it seperate like this?

My bar soap with NAOH recipe...bar soap

Bob
 
Location: Western NY | Registered: September 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Something I have yet to try, although it should work just fine, is to use the NaOH based glycerine and instead of adding more NaOH switch to KOH for the liquid soap variety. Right now other project have the soap factory on hold, and then I want to process all the glyc for bar soap that I have before embarking on more liquid stuff (still have a good amount).

Hypothetically, it would seem that if you use KOH for the reaction then recover the methanol and while ithe glyc is sitll hot, but not above 100C you could mix in warm water into which has been disolved the right amount of KOH, or if this gives a seperation then add most of the water and then mix the KOH into the leftover water and then mix them by stirring slowly and until satisfied that it is all well blended.
Someone needs to try this as I only use NaOH for all my reactions, so can't speak from experience.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have made liquid soap from KOH based glyc. My process was somewhat different to your hypothical procedure, but in the end the same result. What I did was make it just like bar saop but with KOH and KOH glyc. It set to something like jelly as one would expect. after letting it sit for a couple of months I warmed it up and mixed in extra water to form a liquid of the consistancy of most commercial liquid soaps.

It works very very well as a shampoo. Probably even lathers better then the stuff we have been buying. Now that's one less item on the shopping list. lol.

I have no doubt that I could have just added the extra water during the cooking process. I did it this way on purpose to see what the result would be.

I have had very limited success making bar saop using NaOH and KOH glyc. I find it usually curdles. I tried the reverse method, (water/lye then add glyc) and made some soft stuff yesterday. i then went to re-process it and add a bit more water and NaOH, but it also curdled. I'll try the reciepe in the 6th post here and see what I can make using the reverse process.

I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the results are when changing the quantities of water or lye in soap making. What I mean is say we use more or less water, what effect will this have on the saop? It would appear that using more NaOH will make harder soap. Is this correct? Using 300ml water in 1 litre of already liquid glyc seems a lot to me. Just wondering what effect reducing the water would have.
 
Registered: May 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the results are when changing the quantities of water or lye in soap making. What I mean is say we use more or less water, what effect will this have on the saop? It would appear that using more NaOH will make harder soap. Is this correct? Using 300ml water in 1 litre of already liquid glyc seems a lot to me. Just wondering what effect reducing the water would have.

Yes, you are correct. Reducing the water will tend to stuiffen up the soap. I recommend 200ml's to the Litre not 300.
The soap made from the glyc does indeed make excellent shampoo, ours is the bar type but works equally well.Glad you figured out a recipe that gives you a quality product and liberates you from one more commercial addition to the shopping list.
We no longer buy soap here, except for laundry detergent, but the liquid soap serves as a stain scrub before the regular wash. I have done this several times all with the same great results. Had a pair of jeans with motor oil and soot ground into the knee; washed them several times (just to be sure it was really cooked in there, LOL), took some of the liquid biodiesel soap, scrubbed (with a brush) it into the spots and then tossed them into the wash. The jeans may now by worn in public places other than a work shop.
It works equally well as a bathroom scrub where you would normally use a scouring powder too; pour on, scrub with a brush, let sit for a few minutes, rinse, squeeky clean.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I haven't reported back here for a while. Had to try something out first and only got time today.
Having found that I can take my KOH based glyc and turn it into bar soap with the right quantities of water and NaOH I wanted to play with the procedure.
I find that if you add the water then NaOH, then slowly stir in the glyc I start to form lumps. I would say this is because all that lye has only a small portion of the glyc to start working on and forms soap very quickly, making very hard lumps.
So today I went the other way. Add the glyc and warm up. Then slowly add the water/lye mixture while stirring. That works fairly well. I did add the water/lye a bit fast and it started to curdle, but more heat and mixing and all is well.
I am using Palm Oil feedstock that is liquid at room temp. Some of it must contain a bit of fat as well and is more like very soft butter. I process bio using KOH as previously said. I have found that 50 ml water and 50 grams NaOH to 1 litre glyc makes a very good bar. I still have to try some and see how it lathers but it should be great.
I found it did seem to sweat a lot more than when I used NaOH based glyc but that could also have had something to do with the Tropical wetseason kicking in. Although once cutup and put into storage containers it would appear the sweating has almost stopped.
The liquid soap I made a few weeks ago has found lots of uses. It sure cleans the shower screens better then anything from the shop. I'll have to make more of that very soon too.

Oh TODD, I think it's about time you made some as well and cleaned up your act Razz
 
Registered: May 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Your bar soap will keep almost indefinetly in the freezer. I do it all the time. Warm, humid ambient air does cause it to "sweat" quite a bit. It seems that once used this sweating stops.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The only problem I see of the freezer trick is there is not enough room. But once in some sort of container and cut off from the outside air the sweating seems to stop.
I did notice that the cake in use in the shower, did seem to sweat a bit at the height of out wet season.

Now here's something. I was wondering how a block of NaOH glyc with methanol removed would work as soap.
My line of thinking is that a certain person seems to think that soap can not be made from glyc. So how does a solid block of glyc compair to a block of glyc soap?

I don't make bio with NaOH or I would try it myself.
 
Registered: May 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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