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I made a batch of soap(? maybe) and the result after two weeks is a two-layed concoction. The top layer is dark brown and the bottom layer is a sort of oak-colored tan. Both have a pudding consistency. I processed with KOH. It seems to be soap but is a little greasy feeling.
Can I reheat either part and add water to make it totally liquid? Or, is there anything else to do with it that might make it soap for sure?
Thanks for any help,
Joe
 
Location: Peterborough | Registered: May 29, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gonna need more details on what you did, what feedstock you started with, amounts of both glycerin and caustic/water, temp processed at ect.

Are you absolutely sure there was no biodiesel left over in the mix ?

Finished Biodiesel; Fatty Acid Methyl Ester, is the ester of the fatty acid and no longer contains any acid with which to add alkali and water to to saponify it so it only adds *oiliness* to the soap and reduces it's ability to lather and cleanse properly.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What is the pH of the soap?

There could be saponifiable elements left over, any of which can leave the soap feeling oily. My guess is that you will find the pH of your soap at 8 or less, This is an indication that the soap is superfatted with saponifiable elements. The most likely saponifiable element is biodiesel.

The biodiesel can be turned into soap and IMO is why we add the extra caustic when making soap from our byproducts.

However, biodiesel makes for a really bad low lather soap.

It's best to get as much of biodiesel out as possible prior to making soap from the glycerin byproduct. And to add enough additional caustic to fully saponify any saponifiable element. The final pH of you soap should be between 9 and 10.5. Checking the pH of you soap can tell you a lot.

If you have cold processed your soap you will do the pH test after your curing time. If you have hot processed your soap you can test and correct the pH immediately.

You should be able to rebatch this soap with proper mixing and the correct amount of caustic to bring the pH to 9 or above. If you hot process the soap you can check the pH right away.


The following is a quote from the Journal of the American Oil Chemists' Society and speaks of FAME saponification.

"Abstract There are three main methods for producing soap: direct saponification of fats and oils, neutralization of fatty acids and saponification of fatty acid methyl esters. Our unique process of soapmaking, based on the methyl ester saponification method, is described here. By this process, high-quality toilet soaps can be produced from palm stearin and palm kernel oil as well as tallow and coconut oil. "

http://www.springerlink.com/content/2274013752u26uw8/


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I found a very interesting article about interesterification
which is the process described in that link used to sapponify what has been termed Fatty Acid Methyl Esters.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Since the biodiesel will get converted to soap as much of the BD as possible should be allowed to settle out of the glycerin prior to using it to make soap. But no matter how well we settle the glycerin byproduct there will be an amount of biodiesel left emulsified in the glycerin which will end up as soap.

The soap made from the biodiesel in the glycerin byproduct is not good soap for many reasons, one being the lack of lather.

Another reason to reduce the amount of biodiesel in the glycerin byproduct is because it will also affect the SAP of the glycerin byproduct or the amount of caustic needed to fully saponify the saponifiable elements in the glycerin byproduct.

With that,
Low lathering soap can be corrected with other methods.

But in this case you are trying to address the oiliness of the soap. This can be because of the unsaponified saponifiable elements. Checking the pH of the soap can give you an idea as to if this is the case.

Another thing that can cause the oiliness is excess in glycerin. That can be corrected too with a process I've dubbed glycerin negation.

First thing is to identify why there is the added oiliness…


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for the input guys. For the facts, I originally heated the wvo to around 140F, titrated at around 5 the first time. I mixed with 22% methanol with KOH using 13g for the titration. Mixed for 3 hours. Settled and drained gycerine. Settled remainder and re-titrated at around .4. So, I added 5 gallons of gycerine to my original 25 gallons of wvo and re-heated and re-mixed with 20% methanol. When it passed the 3/27 test, I stopped the action and let it settle. I got a lot of glycerine and transferred the remainder to a wash and settling tank. I've washed the bd quite a bit but winter caught me too soon to finish that. I used the top few liters of glycerine after it settled for several weeks and started the soap making process. I heated this to over 240F to a rolling boil for an hour and let it cool down. I mixed KOH with water as outlined in the guide and blended the two together at 100F. Unfortunately, I didn't stir until trace was reached. So, after finding out about this, I re-heated the batch and stirred until it got stiff. I let it sit for several weeks and have whatever it is now. It doesn't lather much at all.
I will make some test batches with different amounts of KOH and NAOH with different types of glycerine I have. This first batch was a dirty oil of indeterminate origins. It made pretty good bd but was probably not a good one to start with. I have glycerine from a non-hydrogenated lard that I'll try next.
 
Location: Peterborough | Registered: May 29, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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