BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Making Biodiesel    GL's Eco-System processor
Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 19

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
GL's Eco-System processor
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi duramadmax,

You must get rid of the glycerol and as much methanol as possible before you do the 27/3 test, or it will give misleading results.

This is quite easy and quick for a small sample.

You'll need to take a small sample right out of the reactor, while the pump is running, to be sure it is a good mix.

Before you take the sample, though, let the tap run a little into a container first, in case you're draining out stagnant stuff which has been lurking in the lower pipework.

After letting the tap run a little, take 100ml into a TALL sample jar and add 5ml water. Give it a good shakeup - this is just like the 5% prewash.

Keep the jar nice and warm, you should pretty soon seen separation starting. If you are using a TALL jar, the top layer will be glycerol free quite quickly, compared to lower layers.

I use a syringe after around 5 minutes to take off around 10ml from the very top. I then heat this in a wide based flask in the microwave for around 30 seconds, to drive off the methanol & water.

You can now do a reliable 27/3 test on this sample. I use 5ml sample and 45ml methanol.

Set everything up before you need it and it doesn't take long at all.


Rover 75 + Skoda Fabia on B100
http://www.graham-laming.com

Bicycle on G100 12,000 miles p.a. ( http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/GrahamLaming )
 
Location: UK | Registered: December 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I gotcha. So what your saying is that as your processing, you take a sample, do a "mini-wash run" and then test bio off top for conversion with the 3/27 test. I did not see that in your write up, maybe I just missed it..Frown

quote:
When all the methoxide has been dosed, you can close valves 3 and 4 and allow the pump to recirculate for around an hour to 90 minutes, depending on your oil quality.

You can take periodic samples from valve 6 to do a 23/7 test, to judge completeness of reaction, as there is no point in continuing the process if the reaction has reached a satisfactory level of conversion.

You can now either stop the pump and allow the glycerol to settle, so that it may be drained off, or you can do a 5% prewash.


Now its clear. Thanks
 
Location: Norse | Registered: March 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi Twenty4seven,

All you need to make a working venturi is two reducers smallend to smallend with a small conecting piece of tube. In the photo attached is my fist attempt at a venturi, which achieved over 6ft of lift using my pump.

If you use imperial sizes then use 2 x 3/4 to 1/2 ruducers and a small piece of 1/2 pipe. I cut the 1/2" socket down to half its original lenght. the hole is where the inlet tube was soldered on but has been removed for another test piece. A little tip. Solder the 5/16" tube on once you have fixed the reducers together and drill through after and you must remove all internal burrs in the throat of the venturi. Try it it's very simple. Roll Eyes

ImagePICT0001.JPG (867 Kb, 539 downloads)
 
Location: Suffolk, UK | Registered: November 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fatkid:
You wouldn't be able to have any pics of this thing disassembled would you?


Sorry I didnt think but I have attached a hand drawn sketch of it in section.

Imageventuri_section.jpg (263 Kb, 506 downloads)
 
Location: Suffolk, UK | Registered: November 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrl:
Hi Twenty4seven,

All you need to make a working venturi is two reducers smallend to smallend with a small conecting piece of tube. In the photo attached is my fist attempt at a venturi, which achieved over 6ft of lift using my pump.

If you use imperial sizes then use 2 x 3/4 to 1/2 ruducers and a small piece of 1/2 pipe. I cut the 1/2" socket down to half its original lenght. the hole is where the inlet tube was soldered on but has been removed for another test piece. A little tip. Solder the 5/16" tube on once you have fixed the reducers together and drill through after and you must remove all internal burrs in the throat of the venturi. Try it it's very simple. Roll Eyes

I just ran the pressure drop numbers for the flow of 32gpm through venturi having 1/2" orifice expanding to 3/4". When the angle is changed from 15* to 30* approaching the orifice, the increase in pressure drop is approximately 50%. I thought that might be of interest since the delta p is the determinant of suction available at the side port, in my view. The fluid in this case was water at 55C. I did not have the viscosity of the WVO although I could subsitute that value if someone knows that viscosity.
 
Location: west georgia | Registered: July 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrl:
Hi Twenty4seven,

All you need to make a working venturi is two reducers smallend to smallend with a small conecting piece of tube. In the photo attached is my fist attempt at a venturi, which achieved over 6ft of lift using my pump.

Hi James

Many thanks for the tips - I'll give it a try.... Am I right in thinking that you used fitting reducers rather than pipe reducers - and butt-brazed 22mm pipe onto them? Would never have thought of that - it does make for a neat finish and presumably smooths the liquid flow. Nice job!

Cheers

Nick


Free collection of waste cooking oil in the Nottingahm area http://wastevegoil.co.uk
 
Location: Nottingham UK | Registered: December 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrl:
quote:
Originally posted by fatkid:
You wouldn't be able to have any pics of this thing disassembled would you?


Sorry I didnt think but I have attached a hand drawn sketch of it in section.


It seems to me (from my old science and hot rod days) that the venturi effect might be improved by changing the outlet to the inlet and visa versa and place 8 (or more) 3mm holes just past the narrow neck on the 30 degree side .. A bit more efficiency might take place by moving the 5/16 feed tube a bit left and angle it at 30 degress toward the new hole placement . crude attachment listed ... for what it is worth ...

Imageventuri5.jpg (14 Kb, 353 downloads)
 
Location: YAKIMA, WA | Registered: March 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Many thanks for the tips - I'll give it a try.... Am I right in thinking that you used fitting reducers rather than pipe reducers - and butt-brazed 22mm pipe onto them? Would never have thought of that - it does make for a neat finish and presumably smooths the liquid flow. Nice job!

Cheers

Nick[/QUOTE]

Hello Nick,
As you noticed, yes they are fitting reducers and the small connecting tube is flowed into the reducers at both ends.

Jim.
 
Location: Suffolk, UK | Registered: November 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I will be tomorrow morn recovering methanol from 150litres bio without the aid of the pump or a venturi. I have added a bubbler to the Appleseed and condensor to get all the methanol. Same as a venturi in that it is introducing air but I won't be running the pump at all so all the bio will be contained in the processor. I have one Plastic hose that I really did not want to subject to a great deal of pressure and heat, same with the pump and pump seals.
I have done some proof of concept last batch and I recovered approx 5 litres from 150litres bio from the Appleseed with a make shift bubbler and a further 8 litres from the glycerol in a seperate still.


HDJ80
Canberra
 
Location: Canberra | Registered: August 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi HDJ80

Good luck tomorrow!

quote:
Same as a venturi in that it is introducing air


It's not quite the same. You will have air (with some methanol vapour) leaving the system if you use a bubbler.

With the venturi, nothing leaves the system, it is re-circulating all the time in a closed loop.


Rover 75 + Skoda Fabia on B100
http://www.graham-laming.com

Bicycle on G100 12,000 miles p.a. ( http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/GrahamLaming )
 
Location: UK | Registered: December 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
Hi Onaday

This link is interesting: http://www.auf.asn.au/FoilSim/FoilSim.html

It deals with wing or aerofoil sections rather than venturis, but venturis are just a special case of aerofoil section (one without an underside), no?

The simulation link above shows that the greatest pressure differentials are created with a) increasing angle of attack and b) increasing camber ("humpiness") of the section, in decreasing order. Perhaps contrary to intuition, the section works "blunt end first" as in jamesrl's original sketch.

There's not a lot one can do about the angle of attack, it seems to me, but the camber ought to be something that could be tweaked.

All the best

Pete
 
Location: Prees, Shropshire, UK | Registered: May 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GrahamLaming:
Hi Jamesrl

Really neat! Which parts did you use for the jacket - that's exactly what I'd like to try.
How did you crimp the pipe in your mixer?

Hi Graham,

The info you wanted for swagging the mixer.

I used a 2" pipe cutter but removed the cutting wheel and replaced it with one of my own making. It's made form 3 x 5mm penny washers silver soldered together and shaped with a file.

Solder washers making sure the holes are lined up. when cold mount on a 5mm bolt and tighten them on with a nut behind the washers. Put bolt and washers into a drillchuck turn on and shape with file.

I have attathed a photo.
P.S. how do I get an immage into a reply rather than an attatchment.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,
 
Location: Suffolk, UK | Registered: November 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Hi all,

Thought you might like to see my proposed set up with Venturi, meth dispencer, vapour recirc. and triple inline mixer.

The two bends will connect to meth and condence tanks. the black item is the meth control valve with the blue shutoff tap. the grey shutoff tap is to turn off vapour recovery whilst adding the meth or maybe open if the pressure builds too much so adding recirc. vapour and met at the same time.
The three items down the side are the tank connectors as designed by Graham Laming.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,
 
Location: Suffolk, UK | Registered: November 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
GL's "Eco-System" optional Vapour trap

Work in progress...

Back to EcoSystem page
===================================================
Hey Graham, is it stuck?????
Great job, thanks for sharing the info.
Jammer
 
Location: Northern Indiana | Registered: November 13, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi jamesrl

Thanks for the pics and info on the swager.
Just a note about your layout ...

If the venturi is at the bottom of the system, you will find the suction is reduced.

Lets say your venturi can suck 10 feet of water when exhausting thru an open pipe.

If you now have the exhaust pipe running uphill for 2 feet, you suction head will reduce by something more than 2 feet.

This is because there will be 2 feet of backpressure, and the flow rate in the system will be somewhat reduced by the extra head.

If you add any restriction in the venturi's exhaust route (such as a static mixer), you will further add to the backpressure.

Before you get to 10 feet head backpressure on the exhaust port, your venturi will start to leak out of the vacuum port.

I suspect you may not need the static mixers, as the venturi does a pretty good job of mixing methanol into the oil, so you may be able to move the venturi to the top of your system, where it will deliver best performance.

--------------------------


Hi jammer

Yeah, I know - loads of stuff to finish off! It's bugging me too. I'll try to get it written up this weekend.


Have good weekends....


Rover 75 + Skoda Fabia on B100
http://www.graham-laming.com

Bicycle on G100 12,000 miles p.a. ( http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/GrahamLaming )
 
Location: UK | Registered: December 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi Jamesrl

To add pictures to your post, your need to place the pictures on a server.

You can use Graydon's site to do this ...]
http://www.biodieselpictures.com/


When you've done that, right click on the picture you want to pots and copy the picture url.

Now, when you write your post here, look at the edit boxes above your text window. The 2nd from the right is an 'Add Picture" button.

Put the url of your picture here, and it should now appear in your post when you have posted it. You won't see it appear in your editing window, just the url.

Hope that helps,


Rover 75 + Skoda Fabia on B100
http://www.graham-laming.com

Bicycle on G100 12,000 miles p.a. ( http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/GrahamLaming )
 
Location: UK | Registered: December 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by peters1956:
but venturis are just a special case of aerofoil section (one without an underside), no?


Venturi's are similar to rocket engines, having in common the Convergent-Divergent Nozzle.


"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

George Orwell
 
Registered: June 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi Graham,

Thanks for the info on pictures.

About the head of pressure, my test rig simulates the position of everything on my plant
and I measure the lift by raising the supply tube connected to the suction on the venturi.
My first effort (two reducers) the apex of the tube got to 6ft before the suction couldn't lift any more, I hope to get it up to 10ft on the new venturi, I'll have a go on Sunday.

The mixer was made for a system without a venturi but I would like to incorporate it in the new system. The throat size of the mixer is based on 1.5 x the cross sectional area of the bore of 22mm pipe. I realise the flow into the mixer is not good enough for the venturi system and will be making new connection pieces, two three way breeches pieces at 120deg plan view. I shall be using common central sphere to develope an exact three way split in the flow, I am convinced that this will solve the back pressure problem with the venturi, I'll post the results for all to see,

You cann't have to much mixing.

Jim.
 
Location: Suffolk, UK | Registered: November 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Graham. To answer your speculation. If you increase temp from 60 to 65 deg C you will halve theoretical processing time from 20 mins to 10 mins. If I remember correctly. It has been a while since I used high temps and discussed the theory with Neutral.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by GrahamLaming:
Hi Cover,

That's a very interesting suggestion - thanks.

I've not tried processing above 60C, so don't get much condensate during the period, but it would be interesting to see how the process time is affected by running say at 65C and returning condensate.


Why not add two more valves that would enable you to run at a higher temp without losing the methanol to the condensor. 1 valve closes the tank off from the condesor and a second valve that takes the tank atmosphere back to the venturi. That way anything that is boiled off will recondense into the flow stream in the lower pressure of the venturi. This would allow you to run the tanks at the higher 65 degree temps, thus speeding the reaction along without having everything run through the condensor and then back. You could get by with only one valve if you left the valves from the dosing tank open, but I don't know if it might be more efficient with two valves, if the vapor isn't running the longer distances, with more back pressure on the venturi and less condensing / cooling / remixing / reheating going on.


Dave
 
Location: Portland | Registered: March 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 19 
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Making Biodiesel    GL's Eco-System processor

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014