For our processor here in Honduras we are planning on having a separate distilling system for our methanol recovery from BD and glycerine. I am writing to see if anybody would be willing to take a look at our design and tell us what you think.

Aside from not having our venturi system connected to our methoxide tank (because this isn't the processor, it is just a recovery tank), the other large difference is that instead of having "A1" branch off of the main tube coming from the condenser, we have it come out of the distilling tank. We chose to do this because we think it will give a bit more potential time for the methanol vapor to condense on the sides of the distilling tank before they get sucked back out by the venturi.



If you are interested in seeing what project you are helping, the link is here: http://www.gotaverde.org/new_portal/

Just ran my first batch. Everything went fine The batch was 20 gal WVO with 4.4 gals of meth and a 5% prewash. upon draining I drained about 6 gals of dark glycern off but didn't really see any gel or soap. Upon draing off my bio to my settling tank the bio looked really good in color. After 3 days I have no settling at all and it looks the same as when it went in. I decided to start a new batch but discoverd the bottom of my processor was where all the soap and gel was. I had to wash out the proceesor to get it all out. What a mess. I think the gel and soap was ontop of the bio when I pumped it out and was left behind in the processesor. I use NAOH and I think I used more than I should have. I think my math was off when I converted to from grams to OZs. Can any one help? I would like to avoid this on the next batch

Thanks
Dave

Dave,
I didn't read anything in your post about de-mething. If you didn't distill out the excess methanol the soap will stay in solution for a long, long time. I am assuming you incorporated the "plumbers delight" condenser.

I did nemeth I got about 2 liters give or take a litle. This was the last step Just before I drained off the bio.

I used the pumbers delight condenser and it worked well. I was surprised I could recover the amount that I did. I just wonder if using to much NAOH had any effect? The funny thing is that the finished bio looks realy good. I guess I will do the 3/27 test to be sure.

Dave,
Your de-meth results sound about the same as mine. It sounds like you are doing OK. If you are starting with dry, low-titrating oil and getting the chemistry just right, you will not make a lot of soap. Did you pass 3/27? As I recall, I do that before de-mething to check conversion. At this point I'd be doing more settling, then spraying in another tank to dry. This will also release more methanol, so you might get some more drop out. Filter and then into the fuel tank. This system is so easy, I thought I was doing something wrong, but my vehicles are running great on this stuff. You're definitely on the right track.

Forgot to mention. About the soap in your processor...I usually mix a little before pumping off to my settling tank just to avoid that very problem. No problems with emulsion.

quote:

Originally posted by PbIntoAu:
Forgot to mention. About the soap in your processor...I usually mix a little before pumping off to my settling tank just to avoid that very problem. No problems with emulsion.

CAUTION THREAD SIDESTEP!

Lead,

Considering todays diesel prices...

Shouldn't your sig be "WVO-Into-Au"??

RETURNING TO PROPER TOPIC.

I have the same issue with my GL1 BD. The shakem'-up test produces clear water, the BD is wet but after drying, it clears right up. BD passes 3/27 as well.

I agree, with all the issues folks are having washing and emulsions, this process "is just too dang easy".

Graham or anyone who can answer this question.

I have reviewed the GL Eco-System design and really like the system. I plan to use a 50 gallon water heater in the Apple Turnover position.

My question concerns the vent line out of the processor to the condenser. I plan to use the original drain opening (now positioned at top of Apple Turnover) for the vent. Will the fact that the vent exits the processor on the side near the top work the same as if it were coming directly out the top?

I love the system design and thanks for sharing.

Chuck

cweman,

As one who is actively using the GL system with a water heater, I think I can safely say that you'll be alright. Provided that you have enough headspace that your vent line isn't picking up liquid from the spray circulation of the fluid. Hope that makes sense.

in refering to gl method here is a quote...........""Im not an expert on GL's method but the basis of it would seem to be that a mixture of biodiesel and residual methanol will dissolve much more soap than biodiesel alone. By drying off the biodiesel, ie evaporating the methanol, much of the soap precipitates and can be removed by filtering. However any contaminates, including soap and caustic soda, that are still dissolved in the biodiesel will not be removed by filtering. For that a short wash, with either water or a dry system, is needed. Even a very tiny quantity of caustic material will eventually cause serious injector damage."".......

would gl or anyone like to comment on this quote..

if it's true...then the settling that gl mentions is'nt enough

edwardbob,

from what i have read extensively on the process, its all about reducing the amount of methanol in the bio -d. graham seems to be able to do this in his processor strictly by de-mething through the plumbers delight. others can't quite get all of the methanol out, so they bubble air through the bio for a few hours, and then see the soap drop out after settling for a few days.

for a quantitative test of soap content to be sure that you have sufficient drop out, check out www.biodieselcommunity.org, there is a test for soap there using bromephenol blue solution.


Mike

and the caustic???what happens that?

this is most likely not the proper place to post this but it is my first time doing so on this web site . any way im interested in what the large biodiesel plants are doing with the huge amounts of glycerl by product. the projected increase in production of bd is going to produce tons of that stuff. their is a limit to how much soap the world requires. the large facilities probly give the **** away

to anyone that can help...am building apple turnover and am looking for a pump...found grundfos pump rated 17.5 gpm...is this enough flow? My tank is 30 gal

Hi Gang,

It is possible to reverse the bd making reaction with distilation?

The reason I ask is that I noticed while distilling that the bd was very clear around 150F but at around 200 F it bacame hazy during distilation. I pulled about 3L of methanol out of a 100L batch during distilation. I do not use a 5% prewash. Could it be that removing the methanol without the prewash leaves the caustic in place to now form soap? This is my first batch eliminating the prewash so I am uncertain. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Newbie-T

I am no expert but I have found that initially when you start condensing the methanol from the bio it goes through a clear stage and as more methanol is evapourated the bio gets cloudy. I have presumed that this is the soap and glycerin dropping out, always happens but I always process until I pass the 27/3 test then you know you have processed enough, settle and drain the glycerin, then condense the methanol. Great Bio everytime Wash, dry and drive.

LW

Thanks Livewire. I was not sure. Guess I have not spent enough time watching over the distilation. I'll do a 27/3 on this batch in a little while and see what the outcome is.

I am in the process of building GL's Eco.

However, while looking at the design's diagram for over a week http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/ecosystem/state_diagram_new.htm

I am thinking of remodify it without the use of venturi, becase venturi seems to be a big trouble to make, which making the whole GL Eco not as easy as it suppose to be. Also modify the ECO so it can filter the GD as well without having to transfer to another tank to do filtering.

I am looking for advice if i am wrong. The venturi in GL Eco's design is mainly for suction of the methoxide, or suction of the air for methonal recovery right?

For the diagram below the original design of GL, http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/ecosystem/state_diagram_new.htm it's using the pump to suck the methoxide, so all we need now is to get air into the tank for methnal recovery. Well as far as i know from fish tank pump, if u have an extra vent to the inlet of the pump, then it will suck in air+ water at the same time! So we can just add another valve to the inlet of the pump, open it when we need air, then the pump will pump the BD and Air to the tank.

I done alot of reading about the GL's Eco system, i know GL mention that the venturi suppose to suck the DRY cold air from the bottom of the condensor, he said that the Cold air is better. But looking at the original diagram, the venturi is VERY close to the vent and it's very far from the condensor, it's more likely it's going to suck air from the vent anyway.

Please correct me if i have wrong understanding about the Venturi. Oh just cameup with an idea, maybe we can connect the valve we added to the inlet of the pump to the vapour pipe of the condensor.

About filtering, i am thinking of adding another inlet to the tank at the top center, about 20cm higher, so this inlet is actually outside of the tank. So the pump is able to pump the BD to side of the tank, also to the outside facing the TOP center of the tank . Here is how to filter: when everything is done, 1)we first open the top cover of the tank,
2)close the side valve of the tank,
3)open up the top valve.
4)hook up a filter bag to the top valve
5)start the pump and it will pump to the filter bag, filter until done.

Please do give me advice of the modify, will it work? I know the filter part will be fine, but i am not sure about the venturi one. Please advice asap, i am going to build the GL's Eco the next few days.

Pirocop...

how is this working? We built a 50 gallon appleseed based version, and I have the same question about the venturi. It worked well when we tested our setup with water, but now with cold oil, oil actually dribbles out! I too am wondering if we just use the methoxide induction valve to also draw in vapor, will it do the same thing without the restriction of the venturi? our pump is a 1/2 hp pond style pump purchased off e-bay for $19.99. thanks