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Hi Pappa,

No, the thing won't work unless the venturi is performing. Have you any pics you let me see, I'd be happy to try and help you make it work - may be a simple issue.

Hi Pom
Centrifuges have been used by others, but I have no experience of them. Then of course, there's water washing!

Used2ski
I'll be back later this evening - sorry - got to go, will answer as fully as I can later.


Rover 75 + Skoda Fabia on B100
http://www.graham-laming.com

Bicycle on G100 12,000 miles p.a. ( http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/GrahamLaming )
 
Location: UK | Registered: December 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Used2ski,
this is my first post, but I think I'm getting close to my first test of the appleseed processor. it has taken me so long to get to this point, i'm disappointed to hear that the reactor may need to be upside down to avoid the residual glycerol (and my water heater may not be cone-shaped at the top anyway.) is there any way to pump a durable substance into the drain port of the processor and "raise the bottom?" also, i still have the clear braided hose as return line as i think you do. did it handle the heat okay? are you still optimistic? thank you.
 
Location: northeast tennessee | Registered: May 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bandakwe - I found that the braided rubber hose held up to the temperatures, but the sched 80 pvc nipples used to attach the hose to the black pipe deformed and leaked at the methanol recovery temperatures. Maybe there is another way to attach the hose to the black pipe.

I wound up making it all black pipe. As to flipping the water heater upside down, it seems to work pretty well.
 
Registered: March 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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bandakwe,

I do remain optimistic. This is a minor setback. I was making good fuel before with water wash, and will soon get the gremlins out of the new GL One Day -- especially with the help of Graham and the rest of the forum. I, too, saw some deformation of the nylon fittings that connect the braided vinyl to the rest of the processor -- I didn't realize it at the time, but after processing both top and bottom were loose. Had to be from softening at high temp. I will likely go to hard plumbed there also, maybe with one of those sight glasses. I do like seeing what's going on.

I had read a thread on this forum about creating a slanted bottom in the water heater. Here's one post that I found. Couldn't find the one I'd read previously, but this one is very similar in concept -- and, hey, Graham, of course, lends an elegant solution.
 
Registered: August 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Used2Ski and Jon,
thank you both. glad to know about those hose barbs so i can look for something better. i too would like to have a sight glass with real plumbing rather than tubes. as for the collection area in the bottom of the tank, i also wondered about just sticking a fairly rigid, but clear tube down to the bottom of the tank through the vent and using a small tank to lift out the inch or two of glycerol that gets trapped. is there something extraordinarily naive about that idea? i like the resin and stone in the bottom solution, too. thank you both. so glad i found this forum. bandakwe
 
Location: northeast tennessee | Registered: May 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Used2Ski and Jon,
I meant "motor" to lift the stuff...not "tank" b.
 
Location: northeast tennessee | Registered: May 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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bandakwe,
I am one of those folks that have used fiberglass resin in my Appleseed with good effect. I purchased a gallon of resin from my local chain hardware store for about 30 bucks. If you go that route I would recommend that you 1.) tilt it away from the bottom drain (something more than 15 degrees would probably work well) and secure it. 2.)Use a funnel to pour the product into the tank, and 3.) Use a close nipple at the drain so that you can pour to the penetration. I am planning on upgrading to a larger tank and will utilize the same process but will probably add some sort of "fill" material so that I don't have to use alot of resin.
 
Location: Spokane,WA | Registered: May 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you use braided tube for a sight tube it is a good idea to valve it top and bottom to keep the hot oil out of it.


2001 Dodge 3500 CTD running B100

Self appointed Minister Of Propaganda, Order Of The Semi Sealed Steel Drum Reactor

Currently washing and drying with a "Death Trap" heater.
 
Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: September 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Raften:
If you use braided tube for a sight tube it is a good idea to valve it top and bottom to keep the hot oil out of it.


I have static mixers on my website that I also use for my sight tube. They are about 2 feet long, withstand all of the chemicals we use in making biodiesel, and are rated for something like 250F. I have mine coming right off of the top of the pump.

Specs:
Element diameter: .784 inches
Mixing elements: 32
Housing ends: Brass 3/4 inch MNPT (Male National Pipe Thread, standard stuff)
Housing length: 25.6 inches
Outside Diameter: .92 inches
Max pressure @ 75F: 240psi
Max Service Temperature: 250F

http://www.fryerpower.com/store/page12.html

-Jim
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I'll let you all into a little secret (but keep it to yourselves) I'm a Coppersmith / Sheetmetal worker with 45 yaers experience.( He says in a wispered voice).

I'd love to spend some time learning Coppersmithing from you.
 
Registered: April 26, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim D:

I have static mixers on my website that I also use for my sight tube. They are about 2 feet long, withstand all of the chemicals we use in making biodiesel, and are rated for something like 250F. I have mine coming right off of the top of the pump.

-Jim


Can you elaborate on this design? I am having trouble picturing what it is and why I'd considering trying it. Thanks!
 
Registered: August 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm new to BD, and its taking a long time to read and catch up on all the info in these threads. But is any one using the BD to run a generator to power the reactor, This seems such an obvious thing to do, also has any one considered or is using a Thermoelectric Cooler/heater Peltier device. I know they uses loads of energy but as one side get hot it could heat the oil and as the other side gets cold it could chill the evaporater (killing two birds with one stone)
 
Registered: April 26, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hey FatKid,
I appreciated Used2Ski pointing me to the post about bringing up the bottom of the tank with resin and maybe using stone (pea gravel?) as filler. Glad to hear from you. Do you pour thru the lower heating element hole? Also, do you use Graham's condensor and if so where does it plumb into the system?

Jim D,
If you use static mixers, do you still need the venturi? My father-in-law is making me one now! thx. b.
 
Location: northeast tennessee | Registered: May 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd love to spend some time learning Coppersmithing from you.[/QUOTE]

Hi Elviramjw,

Have you got a spare 5 years, that's all it takes to learn the basics then the rest of your life perfecting it.

Jim.
 
Location: Suffolk, UK | Registered: November 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by GrahamLaming:
Used2ski
I'll be back later this evening - sorry - got to go, will answer as fully as I can later.


Graham, thanks in advance! I eagerly await your post! In the meantime, I have a plethora of other questions and observations to post.

I have concluded that the liquid above the (crystal clear) fuel trapped above V6 was methanol. Firstly, and I should have thought of this myself, water is heavier that Bio and would have been below it (as in a water wash). Secondly, I isolated about 6.4 ml of the mystery liquid and it weighed about 5.8 g. -- definitely NOT water.

Given that here's what I think may be going on. Because of the Appleseed design and my desire to get as much yield as possible, I likely did not remove all glycerol after water pre-wash. Despite this, fuel still looked clear during attempt to distill methanol. Not having a Venturi in system and not fully understanding methanol distillation, not all methanol driven off/recovered. Meth was likely suspended in air space above fuel/glyc. After distillation, fuel was allowed to settle with remaining glycerol settling out as evidenced by clear fuel above V6. Also, during cooling process methanol suspended in airspace condensed on top of fuel. Transfer to settling tank without further glycerol separation remixed layers, with now condensed methanol on top now remixing as well. With methanol present, fuel and glycerol would not separate.

Does this sound like a reasonable explanation? Regardless I have several questions:

1. Venturi. I have really been having trouble finding parts to fabricate a venturi. Surely, someone reading this in the US has made one of these with commonly available parts. Can someone please share with me how they've made theirs? I'd even be willing to buy one from some of the some experienced copper and/or metal smiths in the group.

2. Methanol distillation. Clearly I need a better understanding of this process. How long and at what temps should I be doing this? I tried to follow Graham's instructions in the Eco-System paper, but the details are a bit vague in this area (no offense Graham). For my first GL One Day batch, I turned on the condensor heat sink and began attempting to collect methanol at 130F. Two hours later, when the system reached 192F, I drained carboy of what I assumed to usable methanol. About one hour later, at 212F we shut everything down. Is this not enough time? What is a typical time for dstillation?

3. One Day = Multi-Day. Is it ok to allow the fluids to settle after the pre-wash for more than the 20 minutes proposed by Graham? Especially now that I am no longer processing at my home (or near my home, for that matter) I cannot always stay from start to finish. Are there better points in the process to start/stop?

Thanks!
 
Registered: August 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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1. Venturi. I have really been having trouble finding parts to fabricate a venturi. Surely, someone reading this in the US has made one of these with commonly available parts. Can someone please share with me how they've made theirs? I'd even be willing to buy one from some of the some experienced copper and/or metal smiths in the group.

Hi Used2ski,

If you want a good venturi I'll make you one, do you want to inject meth or recirc. the internal atmosphere. PM me with your requirements.

Ye Olde Coppersmith.

Jim.
 
Location: Suffolk, UK | Registered: November 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I posted that because of the warning to isolate the clear tubing from the hot oil. The static mixers are mostly translucent. They are clear enough that you easily see what is going on in the tube. They just are not as clear as glass. They can also withstand 250 deg F. For those two reasons they would be a good replacement for the function of the sight tube.

In addition they have mixing elements that split, twist, recombine the fluid and then repeat 32 times or so in the 2 foot length. It does a very good job of mixing the oil and methoxide.

I have attached a photo from TAH's website. The ones I sell are larger than the ones pictured. Mine also have 3/4 inch brass MNPT connectors on each end. But it gives you an idea what is going on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_mixer

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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for my venturi I simply took a black pipe 3/4" tee and plugged both ends, then heated and filled with solder (yes it took alot of solder) I then let it cool and removed the plugs, and proceeded to drill the holes according to GL's description.

It works great, I did my first batch yesterday with an apple turnover and distilled 1 gallon of methanol out of 21 gallon of BD. The soap after one day has mostly all settled to the bottom of the settling barrel. I already put 5 gallon into my Mercedes 300SD.
 
Location: the next race | Registered: May 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by used2ski:
2. Methanol distillation. Clearly I need a better understanding of this process. How long and at what temps should I be doing this? I tried to follow Graham's instructions in the Eco-System paper, but the details are a bit vague in this area (no offense Graham). For my first GL One Day batch, I turned on the condensor heat sink and began attempting to collect methanol at 130F. Two hours later, when the system reached 192F, I drained carboy of what I assumed to usable methanol. About one hour later, at 212F we shut everything down. Is this not enough time? What is a typical time for dstillation?


for methanol distillation the venturi allows air to be pulled out of the top of the reactor, through the condensor, into the carboy where the dry air then makes its way to the venturi. 190F is plenty hot enough for methanol if you have the air flow that is needed.

If you don't have a venturi, you need to somehow force the air out the top of the reactor through the condensor, you can accomplish this by simply bubbling air from an air compressor (with a valve to restrict air flow) from the bottom of the reactor- don't bubble too fast or not all the methanol will distill out fast enough in the condensor and you will loose it out the vent.
 
Location: the next race | Registered: May 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The venturi is used to suck in the methoxide after the pump. It can still be used with the static mixer. Put the venturi after the pump, but before the mixer.

-Jim
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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