ive just got a batch of wvo (rapeseed)only used for fries
mixed up 5,10lt batches
2.5lt methonol & 71g caustic soda each (to make methoxide)
heated wvo(fillterd to 3micron no water)to 100c
let cool to 50c
mixed altogether well after letting it settel over night 16 hours all batches had set solid
what went wrong???

ok started again small scale!!
500g methonol & 14g caustic mixed (methoxide)
2lt wvo heated to 60c (fillterd 3micron)
mixed longer it also set solid (in under 20 mins)
i need help
i use reg wvo all the time with this recipie and get good results is there something in rapeseed oil ??

Rapeseed makes fine bio, no problem there. Your using 25% Meoh and "filtering to 3 microns" both are a waste of time and/or money. You don't say if your using KOH or NAOH. If your using NAOH your titration was 2.1?
How long do you mix, what kind of pump do you use, what catalyst , what base amount, what titration?

thanks for the reply
1st i dont know what koh naoh are i use caustic soda it contains 98%sodium hydroxide

2nd ive never done a titration never had to
ive always added 25% methonol + 7g caustic + 1lt wvo
and followed tillys dr pepper method (and always had good results with good clear separation)

basicly mix meth + caustic = methoxide add to oil heated to 100c let cool to 50c give it a good shake (no pump) 20 -30 times let settle drain , wash , use.

3rd to cap it all off
mix - shake 20-30 times by hand in a drum sealed lid
no pump needed
catalyst caustic soda 98% sodium hydroxide
never done a titration..dont know how to never needed.

Sodium Hydroxide is NAOH. If you used 25% methanol and 7 grams of naoh and had good results, that just means that the oil you have been using happen to be under about a 2 or less of titration. Without titration, this rapeseed oil could titrate at 15 and cause all kinds of problems with 7 grams naoh.

thanks
so what can i do without having to do a titration ??

quote:

so what can i do without having to do a titration ??

Well... you can learn how to titrate. Once you learn, it takes about 45 seconds to do.

Or, you can guess - but this will probably get you poor results almost all the time.

Or, perhaps you could research the recipe used by the biopro people. It seems to work pretty well (not great) for oil in a range from pretty good to pretty poor. It seems not to work as well on really good or really bad oil.

Titration is a much better choice, IMO.

Tatty,

You've gotten some harsh sounding replies. Don't let the directness turn you off, we're just all trying to help.

Check out this site. The videos are quite informative.

http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/tutorialvideos.php

Titration is dirt simple once you've mixed your titration solution and picked up some phenol red or phenolphthalein and a syringe. But you'll see that in the video.

Here is some basic info, too.

NaOH- Sodium Hydroxide, Lye, turns thick or solid at room temp, requires less per batch

KOH- Potassium Hydroxide, Caustic soda ash, liquid at room temp, requires 1.4 times more than NaOH

I use KOH because it won't solidify in the processor and it's *much* easier to mix with the methanol to make methoxide.

Methanol is your main $$ cost. Either NaOH or KOH are cheap.

Be sure to use pure or very close to pure chemicals. "anhydrous" is a good term

Your WVO should be very dry or the chemicals will react with the water instead of the oil. Then you get soap instead of biodiesel.

Too little of any chemical and you get an incomplete reaction. Too much and you'll probably get lots of soap during wash (leftover chemicals then react with the water in the water wash to make soap). This isn't a problem, just harder, requires more effort, more likely to make an emulsion, and it increases your cost due to the waste.

Hope this helps.

- JC

thanks for the advice
i guess ive just been lucky with the other oil i collect?
i think its time to start to titrate ,
ill try to get the kit together and post back with the results asap .
thanks again

Hello tatty

For the easiest method of titrating you can not beat the World Famous Chopstick Titration Technique (Pat Pend)

thanks tilly
ill try that 1st, soon as i get the bits together
may take a couple of days . bios not that big in my area so trying to get the chemicals is tricky esp when you tell people what there for
most people think im mad /drunk /or on drugs / or all of the above

methylated spirits is like a bluish purpely colour in the uk, it contains a methonol + ethanol mix is this the one ??

Tatty

Don't use methylated spirits, you need 96% pure methanol minimun - the purer the better. Chemicals should not be hard to find, it's like twitching, once you get your eye in they are easy to spot . Seriously, do a search on yell.com for chemical suppliers in your area, you should be able to find some.

Sounds like you are running before you can walk. Research the techniques and safety advice on making bio first before you jump in and not fully understand what you are doing. You will save time and money long term and be a LOT safer aswell.

If you need to ask any questions you can post me, as I am from the UK I understand how it is over here - it seems that our US friends are much more open minded to this sort of thing and over here people think you are mad.

good luck with the dragon slaying.

All the Best,

LW.

thanks for the imput livewire
the methylated spirits was to do a titration test is this not suitable??
what do you use to titrate
the main problem i had (in the 1st post , top of page)was the latest batch of wvo i got.
ive been posted i should do a titration

Hello tatty

Metholated spirits in Aus. is clear and works fine for titrations.
I do not know how the blue will work out.

quote:

Metholated spirits in Aus

You have drunk ghosts over there, too???

- JC

blue methylated dont work carnt see colour change??
any suggestions what else will work insted of isopropyl or ethanol ??

Hi Tatty

I use isopopyl and turmeric, why don't you want to use isoprop?

LW

i'm new to the forum and all i've read is making glopp or soap is from to much lye. I just tried to make a ten gal batch in my home made cone shape prosser. heated oil to 120 degrees mixed 5.5g of lye per liter with 17% meth, made sure it was well mixed and as soon as i starte to add methoxide it started to solidify i've continued to ruin batch after batch and am getting frustrated even though i titrate every time PLEASE HELP!

it sounds like we,re having the same problems i used 25%methonol & 6g naoh and all i got for my troubels was 50 liters of solid gloop

Tony62866,

If you're using methanol from the race track, be *absolutely certain* you are getting the *CLEAR* methanol, NOT the lubed.

In my experience, once it's at the track, it's lubed. It shouldn't be purple or any other shade other than crystal clear. Don't breathe, smell, touch, lick, drink, etc (you get the point).


Tatty,

Try reducing your methanol to 20% and 4.9g KOH/liter (plus the titrated amount).

The upside, this should not easily make glop.

The downside, 4.9g KOH should yield incomplete conversion (3/27 test).

Why do this? Well, to finally get a decent reaction to see how it is supposed to look and feel.

If it all goes well, stay at 20% methanol and bump KOH up to 7.9g/l (plus titration amount) and you should get excellent conversion.

I don't use rapeseed, so there may be some differences (?).

I am currently getting good 3/27 passing results at 18% methanol and 7.9g/l KOH.

Note that all these numbers are assuming 99% pure KOH and anhydrous methanol.

With the small batch sizes you're using, this should go quickly.

Also, you should have some way to mix the batch for at least an hour or more at about 140F

Hope this helps.

- JC