Ok will do.

Just so I am clear .. when using Phenol Red (the pool stuff) with good WVO I should get a red or purple color when doing the titration?

What is a good rule of thumb theshhold in terms of the titration? 7,8,9 ML?

Thanks so much for your help.

MJC

Hello Michael,

Yes, the colour is a red/purple. You can not miss it, the colour just gets darker.
I almost never had oil titrating more than 3 and 2 was more usual.

TILLY
DUDE YOUR A ASS GOBLIN *
»§«:*´`³¤³´`*:»«:*´`³¤³´`*:» «:*´`³¤³´`*:»«:*´`³¤³´`*:»§«

Heidi-Ho Cold Foot!

Oh dear, oh dear.
You have several grammatical and spelling mistakes in your posting above.
I'll just get out "Big Red" and fix it up for you.

TILLY
DUDE, YOURYOU'RE AAN ASS GOBLIN *

There, doesn't that look better?

quote:

Originally posted by Tilly:
Hello jay, welcome to the exciting world of biodiesel

Not many people have your problem.

How long does it take for the gel to form?
What type of oil are you using?
Where did you get the methanol and brand?
What type of Caustic soda are you using?
What temperature are you reacting at?

hello tilly.
the gel forms when the whole solution cools down.(after the ethoxide was added)

i'm using new coconut oil (1 Liter).

i'm using ethanol 200 proof (280 ml)from a local factory in philippines.

i'm using 99% caustic soda flakes (4 grams )from china.

the temperature i'm reacting it is 55 deg C.

i ve tried to lessen and increase caustic soda but still the same result. the whole think turned in to gel when it cools down.i hope you could help me.

There are two factors which make this unusual: You are using ethanol instead of methanol and coconut oil instead of vegetable oil. 200ml methanol per litre of oil is about right for the usual reaction. In this case you need to increase by 30% for the ethanol and 44% for the coconut. That makes 374ml ethanol required per litre of coconut.

quote:

Originally posted by neutral:
There are two factors which make this unusual: You are using ethanol instead of methanol and coconut oil instead of vegetable oil. 200ml methanol per litre of oil is about right for the usual reaction. In this case you need to increase by 30% for the ethanol and 44% for the coconut. That makes 374ml ethanol required per litre of coconut.

thanks neutral. ive increased the quantity of ethanol and the finish solution is liquid form.

i have a problem regarding the separation.
ive use 374 ml of ethanol and 4 grams of caustic soda and 1 liter new coconut oil.

there were 3 layers separation i think.
i can see dark brown spot at the bottom, then (cloudy) yellowish liquid at the center, then (clear) light yellow liquid at top.

when i blow on the top, its like alcohol is evaporating.

i think the center part is the biodiesel. what was on the top layer ? why is the center layer is cloudy ?

Hello,
I tried my first batch of the Dr. Pepper Method. Here's what I used:

1 Litre of Crisco Canola Oil.
250 ML of Methanol (Not HEET but only chemical listed was Methal Alcohol.
1/2 Teaspoon of liquid Drano.

I warmed the oil to about 100 F
Mixed the Drano with the Methanol. (Mixed easy as both were liquids)
Then I put the oil in the bottle added the methoxide to it.
I shaked the bottle for about 10 seconds.

After an hour I have a 1 inch clear layer on top and about a 5 inch darker yellow layer on the bottom.

Is the 1 inch layer on top the biodiesel? And is this all I get or did I mess something up. This is my first try at this and am interested in making more. I live on the small island of Guam and Diesel proces are going through the roof! Plus this is the oriental food capital of the pacific. Thanks.

Dave

Hello All, This is my 1st post, I tried the DP. method. With the 1st batch, I used fresh fryer oil (canola), worked perfectly. The second batch I used well used oil driectly from the fryer. I let it set overnite. The tested for water, did the tritration test. It took 8.5ml of lye solution to change the color to pink. So with the 250ml of methnol,I put 8.5grams of lye.Mixed it till it dissolved, added to the 1 liter of oil, shook 40 times let settle. After about 15 minutes it turned to a thick brown glop. What happened? should I have used more lye? I am puzzled. Please Help. Thanks

Do not use Liquid Drano, as you have found, it does not work. Use the Flakes or granulated Drano. The container should state" Contains NaOH, and it should be free flowing, not clumping.

You may be able to recover the batch by adding 1 tsp of NaOH flakes to some more methanol and mixing that thru your failed batch.

hi guys, ive been following this with great interest, and had a go at the DP method. But when it came time to wash, each wash produces (I think) soap and after 5 washes, there is only half the quantity of oil left? Im sure it is something simple, maybe not enough caustic soda?? I used roughly the quantities litsed, 1 litre new canola, 250 ml methanol and 1/2 teaspoon caustic? Any suggestions much appreciated!!
Also, on going looking for some frier oil to try, the first place had "solidifying" oil. Is this any good? obviously it needs to be warm to work with, but how does it end up after reacting etc?? Given that I live in a hot climate?

Hello fisho, congratulations on you first successful batch of biodiesel!

The wash should not be producing soap, only removing it from the biodiesel.
You do need to use care when washing. It is quite possible that the soap has picked up some of the biodiesel and when you empty the wash water some of the biodiesel goes with it.
The three rules of washing biodiesel are GENTLY GENTLY GENTLY

While 1/2 teaspoon of caustic is a good imperical quantity for a first batch of biodiesel I would suggest that if you plan on continuing to make biodiesel a scale accurate to at least 1g would be one of the first items you should consider buying.
Also, once you decide to branch out to using WVO the ability to titrate becomes very important.

Solid oil as long as its titration is not too high will produce good biodiesel. However the biodiesel may start to go solid at a fairly high temperature.
My experience with biodiesel made from tallow and Palm Oil was that it started to go solid around 17deg C

But if it goes solid at around 17c, wouldnt that make it useless for use just about anywhere? If it solidified overnite in your fuel system I imagine that wouldnt be a good thing?
Also, what can you get to measure 1 gram accurately, other than expensive digital scales?
Cheers for the help!

Hello fisho

It works fine here for at least half the year.
Then mix 50/50 with veggie/tallow biodiesel and it is good to around 10deg C.
If you live in a cold area it is a problem.

Inexpensive digital scales.
I used a simple balance scale like they use in early primary school for over a year .

hi ,

i have one question. how important is it to heat new oil before mixing ? since i am new and i was in a hurry i somehow skipped over that part on my trial dr pepper batch. the oil is separating even though i didnt heat it but does it affect the performance of the fuel or anything else. one more thing; the glycerin is white not brown at the bottom, is this normal?

THe heat drives the reaction to a good extent. That your glycerine is "WHITE" is curious. If you mean "not that dark" well, that can be expected of virgin oil.

In my experience, white means water--and I doubt you have that.

I would try heating it in a pot of hot water or the microwave to 60C and shaking the daylights out of it and see if it does not behave more appropriately.

The reaction actually goes just as well at room temperature provided the oil is liquid, it just takes longer, perhaps 8 hours of agitation required.

I just got back to the wonderful world of WVO processing after having found a reliable, large quantity source of oil.

I've been continuing to use the Dr. Pepper technique and experimenting with the oil to try and determine the correct amount of NaOH to use. My first attempt with this oil, following the standard receipt (1L oil, 250ml Meth, 6g NaOH) resulted in a very think, jello-like substance.

I went back to the drawing board this weekend trying different amount of NaOH, while sticking with approx 225ml of Meth. I tried 3g, 4g, 5g. In all 3 cases some separation occured, but what I was left with was a 2-layer separation, a quite clear honey-coloured top layer about 1/4 (for 3g bottle) to 3/4 inches (for 5g bottle), followed by the remainder of the bottle remaining the same colour as the original WVO. There was no bottom glycerine layer that I could distinguish.

I figured that perhaps I could recover the 5g bottle, so I mixed 25ml Meth with 1/4tsp NaOH, heated the failed batch to about 40 degrees, and mixed it in. There was a reaction, and I left it overnight. This morning I had a nice batch of partially solid goo.

Does anyone have any idea what might have been up with my 3g, 4g, 5g trials? It seems if I go near 6g I get solidification.. but less does not result in full separation of the glycerin... ???

help!

Hello Thnkbig
Now is the time to do a titration and find out how much NaOH is really needed.
For the easiest method of titrating you can not beat the World Famous Chopstick Titration Technique (Pat Pend).

quote:

Originally posted by neutral:
The reaction actually goes just as well at room temperature provided the oil is liquid, it just takes longer, perhaps 8 hours of agitation required.

So i could use room temp. oil and just keep it mixing it on & off for 1/2 day?