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Member |
no i heated the oil in a pan .
when it cooled enough i put it in mason jar to watch/observe over time what will happen to it.Like to see if it clouds up again when cooler(which it hasn't yet) . my 3rd dr pepper batch is clearing up i am going to drain the glyc tommorrow and see how many washws it tales to get clean h2o. thanks guys for your help here I am going this week to dismantle a huge(3 apt) solar hot water system that i got real cheap. So i am putting my processor on hold until i can get this thing dismantled and over to my place. Plans are to use it to preheat wvo before conversion and also supply hot water for my house. Any ideas on good heat transfer setup for this .Is it ok to use a copper coil in wvo? |
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OB1,
I have used copper and brass in WVO conversions for 5 years now. I and my wife both have copper coolant/WVO heat exchangers in our respective cars. I would recommend that you set the solar hot water system up as such and use a pump to transfer the hotwater from the storage tank to the WVO tank, using a copper coil in the bottom of the WVO tank. If using the heat for a biodiesel reactor, in a metal vessel, I recommend soldering the copper heat exchanger to the outside of the tank to minimise any irregularities inside the tank where residues could build up. A generous layer of insulation would help reduce heat losses. |
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I ma trying to go from 2 liters at a time to 5 gallons at a time and every time I do it turns to jelly can anybody help I increase metheanol and lye accordingly but turns to a jelly Help
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Hello Denny, wlcome to the exciting world of biodiesel!
We need more information. Did you titrate? If you titrated what was the titration? How much NaOH per litre of WVO do you use? How much Methanol per litre WVO did you use? What type of oil is it? What temp do you react at? How do you mix your methoxide? Did you check for water in the WVO or anywhere in the reaction? Describe your reactor and how it mixes and how long you mix for. Describe the Gel. Did the gel happen quickly (in minutes) or over a long time (several hours after stopping the mix) |
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been using dr.pepper method working great then when I went to the 5 gal mix the minute i quit mixing it turned to jelly no notration, needed it was working great I think i used
too much lye after reading some other post here thanks Denny |
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Member |
If the oil turns to a gel immediatly it is usually becuase
A. Too Much NaOH B. Not enough NaOH. C. Water in the reaction. d. Oil with too high titration |
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Member |
Denny,
You still need to provide answers to Tilly's list of questions if we are to help you sort this out. regards dva |
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I found out also that not enough methanol can be a good method for making gel. Chug ************************* 1996 Transit Tipper 1991 Mercedes 709D 1994 Citroen ZX 1.9TD engine now in peugeot 306D ************************* http://www.biofuel-uk.net/ The Collaborative Biodiesel Tutorial http://www.biodieselcommunity.org |
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Member |
Yes, if you use too little methanol for the amount of NaOH used, it will cause a gel
Back in the dark ages of home making biodiesel, Mike Pelly's instructions were the major source of instructions on the net and he recommended using 15% methanol. Apparently Mike did not understand the relationship between the amount of methanol used and conversion. Consequently, it was quite common for people to make their biodiesel with 12-15% methanol. Also, it was "Common Knowledge" at the time that the reaction used 8% methanol, so 12- 15% was plenty. The down side of using 12-15% methanol is that it is quite easy to produce a gel if you used anything more than the traditional 3.5g NaOH+ titration. While 5g NaOH+ titration in 200ml methanol produces excellent biodiesel, 5g NaOH+ titration in 120-150ml methanol will likely produce a gel. When I first started making biodiesel I had gel problems from not using enough methanol (Typically 10- 12%) and it took me a while to figure out that if I increased the amount of methanol, I was much less likely to produce a gel. The amount of methanol required was actually a hot topic of discussion until Neutral's appearance on the forum and he explained the relationship between amount of methanol used and conversion. Once you start cutting back on methanol it becomes a balancing act, you have to balance the NaOH with the methanol or you will end up with a gel. If you purposly cut back on the methanol to produce a low conversion summer fuel, you also need to cut back on NaOH. Once you get down around the 8- 10% methanol it becomes pretty iffy whether the reaction will get over the initial "Hump" where the oil first increases in viscosity. At times the reaction will "Hang" up at this point and to push it over the "Hump" you need to add more methanol. A gel caused by skimping on methanol is cured by adding more methnanol. Mike Pelly quietly changed his recommendation to 20% a few years ago when I repeatedly pointed out to my good friend Keith Addison that the only reason the 2 stage base-base method made better biodiesel than Mike's was because Mike Recommended using 15% methanol and the Base/Base method uses 25% methanol. Now everyone understands the importance of enough methanol and very few people start out using 12%-15% methanol as was quite common 4-5 years ago. That is one of several reason why I recommend using 250ml for the Dr Pepper technique. |
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Yes I once made a perfect Dr Peppers batch followed by 200litres of gel.... same conditions, same proportion of reactants on a day so hot I didn't have to heat....
The only difference was a different batch of NaOH which turned out to have water in it.... I should have twigged when the mixing of the lye and methanol became explosively hot causing a few tense moments... The gel made good degreaser... Fortuneatly, thanks to the AUS Federal Government I no longer have to worry about this as I refuse to get a licence and until the instalation of my Diesel house heater will not consider making BioD again... |
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Hi,
I used dr. pepper method to mix 1 liter of new palm oil with 250 ml pf methanol and 2 pellets of sodium hydroxide. I don't have smale scale weighter to weight out 4 gram of sodium hydroxide so i just simply put 2 pellets into 250 ml of methanol in a glass jar. Unfortunately, it didn't heat up as it supposed to be. I waited several hour for the NaOH to dissolve in the methanol. Then, i mix it into the palm oil at around 60 degree C. 2 layers formed, a thin darker brown layer at the top and a thick chocolate milk color layer at the bottom. The bottom layer looks like gel but i am not sure. Can you help me? |
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With the NaOH that I have each pellet weighs about 0.1g. You must find a way to weigh it. And you may need more than 4g NaOH, depending on the FFA of your oil. There is some good info in the thread "Titration re-think".
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LindaTey,
Yes, you certainly do need scales. Some very cheap ones on eBay these days. Measuring down to 0.1 gramm is good enough for making bio. Also what will help is to crush these pellets down to a powder before adding them to the methanol. Do this carefully and wear eye protection just in case a bit flies into your face. But you will be wearing eye protection wnen doing the rest of the mixing anyway ? Do the crushing immediately before you add to the meth or your Naoh will go all soggy as it absorbs moisture from the air. regards dva |
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200ml of methanol in 1l of oil is only 17% methanol. 20% would mean one needs 250ml of methanol in 1l of oil. Correct? |
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Traditionally Most instructions talk in volume measure rather than mass
And refer to percentage with refrence to only the oil component. This is what happens when unscientific people develope things. |
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Member |
So is 200ml of methanol in 1l of oil 20% methanol by mass?
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Member |
The SG of methanol is around 0.8 and the SG of veggie oil around 0.92
Therefore 200ml of methanol is not 20% of 1 litre Veggie oil by mass, however it is 20% by volume. |
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Member |
Hey, thanks..
I mixed biodiesel for the second time this morning and i succeeded.  Thanks for the advises. But how long do I have to wait before I can use the biodiesel? And is there any differences between biodiesel made by palm oil and the one from other kind of vege oil? Palm oil is the cheapest vege oil I can find in Malaysia. |
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Member |
Hello LindaTey, congratulations on your first successful batch of biodiesel!
If you are using palm oil that is meant to be used in a fryer, it reacts and runs just the same as most veggie oil. HOWEVER, the biodiesel will start to go solid at around 17deg C. That should not be a major problem in Malaysia. Do not use the biodiesel in an engine until it is "Bright and clear" |
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