Not exactly a newbie here. Been making 26 gallon batches in a water heater for a few months and things have gone pretty smoothly.

I recently found a source for some oil that was quite a drop in quality from what I had previously used. I decided to get a few gallons to give it a try. Where I live, the temperature has seen drastic drops in the past few days. I decided to give this oil a try via the Dr. Pepper method(I used this method several months earlier before trying my first "big batch").

Anyway, the oil and methanol is kept in an outside building and the temperature of both were in the low 40's. The oil had started to coagulate, but I heated it to ~140 degreesF. The oil titrated high(8), and I had to slightly heat the methanol to dissolve the lye. The temperature where I was working was in the high 40's. Anyway, after seeing the photos below, you'll see why I decided to try the 1 liter test before filling up a water heater with this mistake.

As you can see, after settling, I have about 1.5" of what appears to be biodiesel. The remainder is a consistant colored mix from the bottom of bottle to the bio layer.

My suspicion is that the oil temperature dropped too quickly before I got the methanol added. Or the cold methanol lowered the reaction temperature to a very low level.

Am I correct in suspecting an incomplete reaction? My 2 other possibilities are 1)too little caustic? or 2)too much water in the oil?

Which is it, and do I fix it at this point?

Bad Dr. Pepper batch

Heat the bottle back up by floating it in a bucket of hot water. I had some test batches turn out just like yours and that usually fixes it.

Ken

Here is what I have after many attempts. I tried both my WVO and some virgin Canola. Oddly, my WVO looks a bit better compared to where it started! After 2 days of settling and proper washing, it still looks like apple cider. I even heated it to make sure the water was gone - and when I do it goes clear....but then looks like this again in a day after sitting room temp.
HOWEVER, pass 3/27 with flying colors! How can this be if it looks this bad? (not clear) The examples and pictures of the "experts" brew always look clear and shiny. I have yet to produce any that looks like that no matter how carefully I follow directions. (I've been doing this for a week now - probably a dozen batches)



This is how they looked immediately after washing:

THis is a sample of mine, but it took 8 hours to look like this and it doesn't look like the explanation you have given. I measured out 250ml of HEET with a plastic measuring cup. I used a cleaned spaghetti sauce jar and it seemed like the seal was melting or at least not working when I was "sloshing" arund the methanol and lye.

I mixed the methanol and lye and Canola veggie oil outside so that I had proper ventilation, But I set the 1 liter bottle inside after I mix and shook becuase it is about 40degrees outside.

The only thing I didnt measure absolutely correct was the lye...I used half a tablespoon of lye instead of a teaspoon.

Attached is the pic of my final product after 12 hours sitting....

Any advice would be helpful or does my experiment look correct?

biodiesel.jpg (33 KB, 44 downloads) final product

i have definitely heard about this Dr.Pepper technique...but have never used it personally coz of the danger of chemicals involved in it

quote:

Originally posted by Chrismyth:
How can this be if it looks this bad? (not clear) The examples and pictures of the "experts" brew always look clear and shiny. I have yet to produce any that looks like that no matter how carefully I follow directions. (I've been doing this for a week now - probably a dozen batches)

It probably still has too much water in it. It should clear up when dried thoroughly. I'd try putting it into a large shallow pan and then blow a fan across the surface for a few hours.

Ken

quote:

Originally posted by irishtkd:
The only thing I didnt measure absolutely correct was the lye...I used half a tablespoon of lye instead of a teaspoon.

Tilly's directions call for half a teaspoon of "lye". Three teaspoons = one tablespoon. You used about a teaspoon too much "lye".

quote:

Any advice would be helpful or does my experiment look correct?

Biodiesel quality is difficult to judge by appearance. If the reaction goes well it will appear good. If the reaction is marginal it can still look good.

New vegetable oil usually yields a very clean looking byproduct layer. It's sometimes hard to see the difference between the biodiesel layer and byproduct layer. Used vegetable oil gives a very dark byproduct layer. Biodiesel doesn't always look like liquid gold over a layer of tar.

It's hard to tell in your photo but it looks like your batch had a reaction and separation. It might be correct but you used three times the recommended amount of "lye". If your "lye" is NaOH it can turn the biodiesel to gel. If your "lye" is KOH it probably won't turn to gel but it will be very soapy.

Ken

quote:

Originally posted by elmejor:
i have definitely heard about this Dr.Pepper technique...but have never used it personally coz of the danger of chemicals involved in it

True, the chemicals can be harmful if handled improperly. Safety precautions are included in the directions for the Dr Pepper technique. If the safety procedures are followed and the chemicals are handled with respect and common sense the risks are manageable. If you are unclear about anything in the procedure you should seek clarification before beginning.

Ken

quote:

Originally posted by Bunk:

quote:

Originally posted by irishtkd:
The only thing I didnt measure absolutely correct was the lye...I used half a tablespoon of lye instead of a teaspoon.

Tilly's directions call for half a teaspoon of "lye". Three teaspoons = one tablespoon. You used about a teaspoon too much "lye".

quote:

Any advice would be helpful or does my experiment look correct?

Biodiesel quality is difficult to judge by appearance. If the reaction goes well it will appear good. If the reaction is marginal it can still look good.

New vegetable oil usually yields a very clean looking byproduct layer. It's sometimes hard to see the difference between the biodiesel layer and byproduct layer. Used vegetable oil gives a very dark byproduct layer. Biodiesel doesn't always look like liquid gold over a layer of tar.

It's hard to tell in your photo but it looks like your batch had a reaction and separation. It might be correct but you used three times the recommended amount of "lye". If your "lye" is NaOH it can turn the biodiesel to gel. If your "lye" is KOH it probably won't turn to gel but it will be very soapy.

Ken

Thank you, I have since bought metal measuring spoons and glass mixing pitchers so I am going to try again. I am trying to get enough WVO from our own home use to try again to see if I get a clearer seperation. I appreciate the advice!!

Just outta curiousity, what "tests" can I put my final batch through to VERFIY it is Bio-diesel? I dont want to try to make batches and then just pour them into a diesel engine and ruin the engine.

ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

quote:

Just outta curiousity, what "tests" can I put my final batch through to VERFIY it is Bio-diesel?

The 3/27 test is described here in an CBT article and here in the thread where it was introduced to this forum.

I have made 5 dr Pepper batches of biodiesel and it is good to know there is a test for quality. I will read your recommended test and check out the batches I have made.
I hope it will work with unwashed biodiesel.

Hi all,
My friend and I made our 1st batch of bioDiesel the other day using the Dr. Pepper method.

We had 1 Liter Virgin Veg oil, 250ML methanol and 7g KOH.

When it came time to wash we did the following:
Wash 1, about 500ml, tipping the 2l bottle end over end (taking the lid, turning the bottle so the lid was at the bottom. Then similarly till the lid was at the top. repeat.) For about 30s, then drained. We repeated 3 more times with increasing force/vigor.

The book we were reading said to use 500ml and shake with vigor for the 5th wash. Now we have what looks like biodiesel on the top and Milk on the bottom. (ocassional wisp of mayo can be seen if we swirl it around).
I have pictures. Is this bioD ok or did we make emusion? (see: http://picasaweb.google.com/Ca...E7AE&feat=directlink )

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CalgaryBioDiesel,

Hey Guys,
First, let me give my thanks to Tilly for this technique. I apologize if my question is a bit newbie-ish, but I've just made my 1st batch using this technique and I'm waiting for it to settle. My question is, how do I dump out the biodiesel and/or glycerine after it has seperated? Thanks guys, I appreciate it.


-KS

I have not tried this method, but will be shortly. To answer the previous post, my plan was to attach a small piece of hose to a hole drilled in the bottle cap. Using a small valve at the end of the hose, the lower layer of waste can be drained out.

I can only assume that the next step would be a series of washes, settle, and drain.

After this, perform the 3/27 test.

You can use the pull top off of a small water bottle that you get at the store.. Just make sure the cap threads match. Had one that did not fit good. Big mess as soon as I flipped it over.