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World Famous Dr Pepper Technique (Pat Pend)
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Slight drop in yield is normal. Good job Smile When I left cap off to vent, dust settled in mine. I had to strain through a coffee filter. I've got a jar sitting on my desk at workWink
 
Registered: March 29, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well, just when you think you've got it, then you try a dirty oil 2 liter bottle and get SMOKED. Razz

I don't have my titration kit so I thought I'd be clever and get the guy who gave me the old oil to do the titration. That's all good except he has KOH and I have KaOH(?). I remembered that it took 63mL per the test so I plugged that number in and attempted to use THAT result to and use MY catalyst. BIG mistake.

The stuff never did 100% dissolve in Methonol and as soon as I poured this mixture into the oil it all coagulated in a big, marbled nightmare! It looks like a brown-sugar/oatmeal explosion in a 2-liter bottle.

SO I guess the obvious fix is titrate using KaOH since that's my catalyst and go with THOSE numbers, not the KOH numbers. Still kind of funny (by the way, does 70 grams of soda lye sound like a lot for 1 liter of WVO?).
 
Location: UT | Registered: June 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello Raptor

Do you mean 63ml or 6.3ml

An NaOH titration of 6.3 is on the high side and likely to give you problems.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It took several full pipettes plus 3 (ml?) on the final which seemed to yield a total of 63 units. I thought it was ml of suspension and then you divide that number by 4(?). Again, I didn't do it myself but merely recorded the result. Chalk it up to me being lazy.

But yes, it took quite a bit more solution to turn and hold color compared to a new batch that I watched him do last week.
 
Location: UT | Registered: June 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Tilly:
Hello Raptor

Do you mean 63ml or 6.3ml

An NaOH titration of 6.3 is on the high side and likely to give you problems.
Yep, I screwed up and screwed up BIG. The end result of 63 ml of solution was based on FOUR ml of test oil, not one. The end result, 63, MUST be divided by 4 and then added to the base amount. I should have used somewhere in the neighborhood of 19 grams of catalyst and instead attempted to introduce SIXTY EIGHT GRAMS.

I have successfully made a batch that looks like oatmeal mixed with brown sugar...kind of like a "ship in a bottle."

As promised, photos of the ugly, the bad, and the good...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/83123420@N00/sets/72157605...how/with/2582954730/

This message has been edited. Last edited by: UT_Raptor,
 
Location: UT | Registered: June 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by UT_Raptor:
Superorb:

Yep...crystal clear after only three hours in the sun venting yesterday but it stayed cloudy until it was washed. Washing went just as Tilly said with gentle agitation at the beginning until about wash 5. By wash 5 the water was relatively clean...although I did notice more foam and bubbles in the water layer with the harder agitation. I also noticed a slight drop in yield after the wash.
follow on to this was that I should have let the post-wash settle much more than I was after violent agitation. Next time around, I will allow much more time for settling after washes 4 and 5.

I also noticed that Tilly's method of ONE 10-second shake using WVO seems to work far better than the 5 second shake every 15 minutes. I had good separation after the first 10 second shake and should have left it at that (see pics above) but I wanted to test the 15 minute interval agitation to see if I got better yield. Instead, I once again got somewhat of a congealed mess as I did with SVO. Catalyst could also be the culprit, as the scale I'm using isn't as accurate as it should be.


But this does leave a big question for me...once I nail down the catalyst and period of agitation to produce acceptable fuel how should I interpret those results towards use in an Appleseed? I ask because it would seem that with pump agitation that I may have the same problem as I did using the 15 minute interval shake...where one violent shaking period yields good fuel while intervals seems to mess things up a bit.
 
Location: UT | Registered: June 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hello-

I just ran my first ever batch (Dr. Pepper method) using wvo I got from my brother in law who is a chef. The fryer oil he gave me was quite dark, about as dark as doctor pepper, it has been sitting for about an hour and all I can see is about 3/4" of somewhat clear fluid on the top, the remainder is as dark as it started.

I have not found any info on dark oils in your forum or in the DR. Pepper Method pages. Do I need to go to a wvo forum? Or can someone help in this forum? Should I do a titration or is this oil simply burned or to full of FFA'S or did I mess up somewhere?

I followed the dirctions for the WVO ...it has been sitting for a few weeks after I filtered it with a 100 micron mesh filter.

Thanks-

Belugas Roll Eyes
 
Registered: July 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello belugas, welcome to the forum

Hold a light behind the Dr Pepper Bottle and see what it looks like






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Tilly:
Hello belugas, welcome to the forum

Hold a light behind the Dr Pepper Bottle and see what it looks like


Thanks for the welcome-
with a light behind the bottle, the bottm half inch is a white sludge, the next 6" layer is dark coke color liquid, the next layer is a paper thin layer of a tan precipitate, and the top layer is light amber clear layer about 1" tall.

When I heated the oil I might have over heated it a bit because it did smoke a bit. Also, my wvo starts out as dark as root beer. No titration yet.

What you think?

Thanks-

belugas
 
Registered: July 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello belugas

I suspect that you have some high titration oil and you will need to do a titration






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi all, did my first test sample yesterday using new oil, i got seperation almost stright away. I shook it for 20 sec quite hard, is this too much?. i now have BD with small white bits floating around and the stuff on the bottom is a light brown colour, also my BD is cloudy but think i may of shook it to much. do i need to leave it longer to clear up, or do i need to wash it. i used 6g of sodium hydroxide any help anyone ....... thanks in advance

anthony111
 
Registered: August 01, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi all. I too just finished my first test batch using new oil. I followed Tilly's Dr.Pepper method to the letter. After shaking a dark amber liquid settled to the bottom. I removed the glcryn and did the water washes. The top fuel was cloudy and the water was cloudy also but got more clear after each wash. After the last wash the water was almost completly clear. I set the fuel out in the sun with top off and after about an hour it turned crystal clear. It did have two small droplets of water remaining in the bottom, but still after two days the fuel is crystal clear..I'm very happy with the results and getting ready to try it again..thanks again to Tilly and the Dr. Pepper method...
 
Location: mississippi gulf coast, usa | Registered: July 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hi all! Still making test batches here to get tthe feel for everything. I've start #5 tonight with some real WVO this time. It titrated to 3 so I used 8 grams of NaOH for my methoxide mix. Big Grin So far so good. This stuff is dark!!

So I do have a question (or three.) I has been stated that shaking 4 times for 5 seconds over an hour is better than 20 seconds at the beginning of the reaction. Is it possible to shake too much? What about constant mixing after the vigorous shaking? Will that help or harm the batch or is there no need?

Thanks in advance!
Doc
 
Location: South Carolina | Registered: August 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello doggiedoc

The more mixing the better.
You need to keep periodically shaking to keep the chemicals in the reaction area. If they are allowed to settle out then the reaction will stop early






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Saint Tilly -

Thanks for the fast response but now you've confused me. The reaction doesn't start until settling? I assumed it was taking place right away during the first mixing.

Am I confused?. Please clarify.

Thanks,
Doc
 
Location: South Carolina | Registered: August 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello Doc

I was typing too fast and did not check what I wrote.
It should have been STOP early.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ah, thank you kind Sir for the clarification!

Big Grin
 
Location: South Carolina | Registered: August 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello all, I'm a newbie at BD and forums in gerenal. Usually to stubborn to ask for help! Ha! Anyway I 've been reading for about 3 months about all this stuff and decieded to take action. I've built my own wvo collection tank and put collected the parts for my processor. So last week I made my first liter batch using the Word Famous DPT. It came out OK, not that clear and not as yellow as the picture on this forum. So I decieded to process it again. Boy did I do something wrong!! I ended up with something that looked like marble with the consistancy of jelly. OK things I didn't do the second time. Didn't titrate. Used the same Meth/lye measure as first time. Heated reprocessed oil to 212 deg. to cook off any water. Let cool to 140 +- 5 added meth/lye turned to mild emedately!
Thats not the end... Did another batch the next day. Told myself I was going to try the 80/20 method. Again the first 80% batch went well. After an hour good seperation but cloudy and brown not nearly yellow and clear. Then I heated the BD up again to 212+ to cook off any suspended water and meth, let cool to 140+-5 then added the rest of my meth/lye mix. Cap tightly and mix vigorusly let rest over night. Vola - clear gelly??????? What the %^#*@ ! Am I missing something?
_________________________
To stobborn to know better
 
Location: Catskill Moutains | Registered: August 09, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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My guess is that you used too much NaOH causing the gel to form. Also, don't boil off the methanol between the 80/20 stages.

Ken
 
Location: Sellersville, PA | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not exactly a newbie here. Been making 26 gallon batches in a water heater for a few months and things have gone pretty smoothly.

I recently found a source for some oil that was quite a drop in quality from what I had previously used. I decided to get a few gallons to give it a try. Where I live, the temperature has seen drastic drops in the past few days. I decided to give this oil a try via the Dr. Pepper method(I used this method several months earlier before trying my first "big batch").

Anyway, the oil and methanol is kept in an outside building and the temperature of both were in the low 40's. The oil had started to coagulate, but I heated it to ~140 degreesF. The oil titrated high(8), and I had to slightly heat the methanol to dissolve the lye. The temperature where I was working was in the high 40's. Anyway, after seeing the photos below, you'll see why I decided to try the 1 liter test before filling up a water heater with this mistake.

As you can see, after settling, I have about 1.5" of what appears to be biodiesel. The remainder is a consistant colored mix from the bottom of bottle to the bio layer.

My suspicion is that the oil temperature dropped too quickly before I got the methanol added. Or the cold methanol lowered the reaction temperature to a very low level.

Am I correct in suspecting an incomplete reaction? My 2 other possibilities are 1)too little caustic? or 2)too much water in the oil?

Which is it, and do I fix it at this point?

Bad Dr. Pepper batch
 
Registered: July 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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