quote:

I think I'd dispose of the Draino by using it to clean my drain pipes. Be sure to follow the directions on the can.

Ken, I realize this isn't the venue to discuss this but why would you say that? I't unbelievable that a substance like that is allowed on store shelves for that purpose. Sodium Hydroxide, the same chemical that every biodiesel instruction list is warning you to be so careful around because of it's toxicity? Nothing except water should go down the drain. It's the only thing that most treatment plants can deal with and they don't even do that very well. Heck, our not-so-pristine northern lake is the way it is because of the lack of secondary treatment for plain old sewage. On top of that, it's a totally unnesessary product. I've cleaned 100's of drains using less harmfull methods, never had to pour anything down. These chemicals end up straight in the fish and amphibians inhabiting your streams then in the children playing in the sand at the mouth of the stream entering a lake or in the fish that you pull out of the lake. I WISH PEOPLE WOULD THINK ABOUT THEIR CONNECTIONS TO THE WORLD AROUND THEM! It's not just about the little amount that you put in, it's the cumulative effect of thousands and millions doing the same thing.

Sorry for all that,
Tim

Ken,

By the way, thanks for your advice!

Once I get my Landcruiser running again, 5 days and counting, I'll be back to trying another batch.

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Timothy:
It's the only thing that most treatment plants can deal with and they don't even do that very well.

If you have any specific information on the environmental impact it has I'd like to see it. I want to do the right thing but I get the feeling you might be overreacting.

Drano claims it's safe in septic systems. Septic systems are an isolated ecosystem of their own and it doesn't seem to disrupt it.
If there is any grease in your plumbing it will be consumed making soap. If it reacts with any acids it will form water and salt. If it reacts with CO2 in the air it forms sodium carbonate.


The Drano MSDS claims "Waste from normal product use may be sewered to a public-owned treatment works (POTW) in compliance with applicable Federal/ Provincial/ State/ Local/ Municipal pretreatment requirements". "All ingredients of this product are listed or are excluded from listing on the U.S. Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) Chemical Substance Inventory." "All ingredients in this product comply with the New Substances Notification requirements under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act(CEPA)." I wish lawyers didn't write these things.


Food uses of sodium hydroxide include washing or chemical peeling of fruits and vegetables, chocolate and cocoa processing, caramel color production, poultry scalding, soft drink processing, and thickening ice cream. Olives are often soaked in sodium hydroxide to soften them, while pretzels and German lye rolls are glazed with a sodium hydroxide solution before baking to make them crisp.

Specific foods processed with sodium hydroxide include:
The Scandinavian delicacy known as lutefisk.
Hominy is dried maize (corn) kernels reconstituted by soaking in lye-water. These expand considerably in size and may be further processed by frying to make corn nuts or by drying and grinding to make grits.
Sodium hydroxide is also the chemical that causes gelling of egg whites in the production of Century eggs.
German pretzels are poached in a boiling sodium carbonate solution or cold sodium hydroxide solution before baking, which contributes to their unique crust.
Most yellow coloured Chinese noodles are made with lye-water but are commonly mistaken for containing egg.


So, if we eat the stuff how bad can it be?

Sources; drano.com, scjohnson.com, wikipedia.com.
Ken

I did my first Dr. Pepper test today. I don't know if anything happened. I could not find straight NaOH so I used Draino in granule form, which said, "contains lye, caustic soda, sodium hydroxide" I also used the yellow heat bottle methanol. After an hour of setteling it appeared only about the top third of the bottle was biodiesel, and then I thought what if it is just the methonol seperating? So I gave it another good shake, and now it is just chocolate milk colored. Will it settle out overnight, should the cap be on or off, how much biodiesel is usually made from say a liter of oil?
Thank You

Hello rolyat

Shake it really hard!

quote:

Originally posted by Tilly:
Shake it really hard!

Hi Tilly. I tried Drano once. It didn't work for me. I'm not sure any amount of extra shaking will force the reaction. It's a good aerobic workout but that's likely the only good that will come of it.

Ken

After drying my BD for a bunch of days, there seems to be some sediment on the bottom. I can't se it until I swirl or shake the jar up. It's light in color and settles to the bottom? What is it, and can I get rid of it by running through a cheese cloth? I'm not going to use this, just sticking in a jar and putting on my desk as a reminder to others that there are alternatives out there.

Hello Bunk
I think I missed the "Drano" part.

quote:

Originally posted by Bunk:
Hi Tilly. I tried Drano once. It didn't work for me. I'm not sure any amount of extra shaking will force the reaction. It's a good aerobic workout but that's likely the only good that will come of it.

Ken

Hi all,

I have read with much enthusiasm all the posts in this topic. I successfully made my third 1 liter batch with New vegtable oil. I did not however have much luck with some used vegtable oil I got from a local school (with permission of course) I am using magnasol for my washing agent. My question is for the reaction to take place (separating the ffas) does it have to be in an airtight environment? I did use an airtight environment the one liter I successfully made, and the 2 failed attempts I did not.
I am using naoh from Nebraska bio pro.
methanol from a local racetrack. $4.50 a gallon
(50 gal drums)
Thanks ahead of time. And special thanks to tilly for all the useful info he posts.

Hello biowill,
Thank you for your kind remarks.

It is best if it is air tight so that no methanol can escape.
Did you titrate the WVO?

Tilly I am sad to say since my kids go to this school, that it titrated out at 9 for a total of 14.

Tilly, I also have another question for you if you don't mind. On the NVO before the magnesol wash the ph checked at 9.0, and after at 7.5. However the oil was kinda hazy, so I water washed it and after all was said and done it came out crystal clear. I was actually amazed at the clarity. I also done another batch with the same results. Is this typical of magnesol, or did I just buy 5# of flour as this is what it looks like? Also I checked my titration on the wvo for the 4th time with the same results, and I also done another batch today. It is taking it forever to settle out but a layer at the bottom is forming and mann is it thick. Its a gooey looking white stringy layer.
thanks ahead of time.
biowill

I have been tinkering with these pesky small batches for a couple of months and I am quite impressed with the success that I have achieved with Saint Tilly's method.

I live on the Texas coast and have problems with drying my small batches due to the sometimes overwhelming humidity. It can take me up to 3 days to dry a small batch in the sun. I recently purchased a small air pump (5-15) gallon aquarium model from wally world (Walmart) to test an accelerated drying process for humid conditions.

I placed 1.75L of cloudy but fully converted bio into a 2L Dr pepper bottle, attached an airstone to about 3 feet of air tubing, dropped the stone into the bottom of the bottle and plugged the unit in.

It only took about 3 hours to dry the entire 1.75L . A possible solution to humidity problems with small batch drying.


RIT


2005 Kubota B7800 running Dr. Pepper BIO at 50%

Hello biowill

I have never used magnesol so I can not advise you on that.

"pH is an index of the concentration of Hydrogen Ion (H +) in water. Since oil (biodiesel) is not an ionizing solvent, it has no free hydrogen ions and therefore, it does not have a pH per se. If the oil contains materials which when mixed with water supply hydrogen ions to the water phase, then these will register when the pH of the water phase is measured."

In short, measuring the pH of the biodiesel tells you nothing of importance


Hello RIT
I am glad to hear that things are going well for you!

ok, thanks for your response tilly. My other batch of wvo that separated was nothing like the nvo glycerin separation. It was a very white stringy substance in the bottom layer. Also I tried to wash part of this batch with water and it would not separate and its been about 4 days now. I also done a glycol test on it and it showed about 50% if that is of any importance.
thanks again
biowill

Hello biowill

Did you titrate the WVO?
If you did what was the titration?

If i start out using svo, do i have to heat it up to test? This will be the very first time to see if I'm reading all of this right, "my first test batch" if you will. I'm able to find small amounts of methanol and i'm going to start with that, like I said, this will be my very first time mixing any of this stuff up.

quote:

Originally posted by Slinger30:
If i start out using svo...

Hi Slinger30. SVO is an acronym meaning "Straight Vegetable Oil". When making biodiesel almost everyone starts with SVO. Do you mean unused or virgin vegetable oil? If it's waste vegetable oil (WVO) what kind of test do you want to do? Free fatty acid? Water?

Ken

Well I was referring to my first test batch of BD just to see how it came out as far as looks, but i went ahead and used wvo i'm waiting for the oil to cool now.

I was going to start with unused oil just to get an idea of what the finished product looks like.

Hello Slinger30, welcome ot the forum!

Just to clear it up, SVO does not mean new Vegie oil although some people incorrectly use it to mean that.. SVO is more often used oil and is Oil that has not been transesterfied.

To answer your question, if you are using new oil from the bottle you should not need to heat to remove moisture and you should not need to do a titration..