Hello Troy

I assume you are aware that SAFF has/had a continuous biodiesel processing plant. Myke on this forum was active on this forum at one time and had a connection with this plant.
You might want to try and contact him.

thanks for that, I'll give him a PM.

I know there is quite a few around, but none that I'm aware of using ethanol. There are some interesting technologies around being marketed for it. One that could maybe even be built by a home user.

Troy,

You may also want to look at Jhono's Double Pumper.

Andrew

Has anyone tried this method after acid esterification?

quote:

Originally posted by Tilly:
If you do a bit of a search on this subject you will find that it has been discussed and some university papers are refrenced etc...

Tilly,

Rothermel and VanGerpen tried to continuously remove glycerol.

In summary, when they removed the glycerol, they also removed so much catalyst the technique did not work. Continuous removal of glycerol does not result in improved biodiesel production.

Here is the URL: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:r3VixMawUskJ:www3....n&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Hello Producer

Thank you for finding that for me. I remember this paper or one like it being discussed on the forum once, and as I recall, Neutral seemed to be amused that they had even considered that it would work.

Producer,

When I go there, all I get is the table of contents and the abstract...

I don't see where they conclude that the reason contiuous does not work for them is catalyst loss.

Also, It sounds to me that catalyst loss would be easier to overcome than methanol loss.

Andrew

In my dreams I imagine heterogeneous catalyst and continuous glycerin removal...

heterogeneous catalyst? what exactly do you mean by that? (I know what the word means, just dont understand what you mean)

quote:

Originally posted by TroyH:
heterogeneous catalyst? what exactly do you mean by that? (I know what the word means, just dont understand what you mean)

Contained reusable catalyst in a fixed bed. Lots of people are working on it, but there is nothing that makes sense yet.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Morris:
Producer,

When I go there, all I get is the table of contents and the abstract...

Try this link, it goes to a PDF version of the complete paper.

www3.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Technical%20Papers/Roth%20T%20of%20C.pdf -

quote:

Originally posted by producer:

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Morris:
Producer,

When I go there, all I get is the table of contents and the abstract...

Try this link, it goes to a PDF version of the complete paper.

www3.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Technical%20Papers/Roth%20T%20of%20C.pdf -

Producer
That link only gives me the TOC and Abstract, none of the content.

Try this:

http://www3.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Technical%20Papers/Theses_link.htm

The above link (my last attempt) worked OK for me when I clicked it after posting to this forum.

The following is a direct quote from the conclusions:


"3. Separating a heavy phase stream from the transesterification process at steady state
causes decreased reaction rates. All tests took longer to reach acceptable total glycerol
levels of 0.15% as compared to reactions at the same temperature without separation.
Some of the reactions using the separator never reached completion and those that did
had higher total glycerol levels than reactions performed at the same temperature without
separation."

Bump. This thread is getting buried and harder to find every time I need it. Sorry 'bout that.

I don't know if anyone has answered the question posted earlier, "Will this work on a larger scale?" I just finished a 400 gallon batch using neutral's numbers and quickly passed the 3/27 test.

I use a 500 gallon HDPE cone bottom tank connected to 4 solar hot water panels driven by a 50 gpm sprinkler pump. I call it the BEAR. (Big A$$ Reactor. Still need to find a use for the "E" in BEAR) I can heat 400 gallons of oil to reaction temps in about 4 hours on a hot summer day. No heating elements required, just electricity for the pump.

I used neutral's numbers and the 3/27 test made a light cloud and cleared in 5 minutes. No dropout at all. Thanks neutral, Tilly and Mickey.

BTW, I use the entire glycerol byproduct from the previous batch to polish my oil before reacting, with heat and agitation. Settle for an hour or so and remove the glycerol, then titrate.

Next, use neutral's technique for the reaction. No prewash. I don't want any water in the glycerol because I'll use it to polish the next batch of oil.

Next, wash with a gizmo I made from 1/2" PVC pipe with 20 fine misters. Mist in about 100 gallons of water over a 3 hour period, drain, mist again and drain.

Next is drying in the same vessel. I have an old squirrel cage fan that I glued into the top of a 5 gallon plastic pail that screws in perfectly to the 12" lid opening of the cone bottom tank. I have a vent pipe in the top of the reactor with a valve. Valve is closed during reaction and open during drying. Water drips constantly from the vent pipe during drying. I can dry 350 gallons of bio in 2 hours.

It reminds me of Legal Eagle's recent thread about how nice it is when everything you've engineered works. I've finally arrived.

I just need to find a way to recover methanol using the BEAR. I made a condenser using a 30 gallon plastic drum filled with cold water and copper pipe connected to my dewatering vent, but so far it hasn't worked.

Anyway, I'm doing 1 reaction a week and getting about 350 gallons of biodiesel with very little effort. It seems that doing a large quantity is so much easier than doing many smaller batches. And doing reactions on this scale pumping at 50 gpm makes higher quality fuel than any of my smaller processors ever did.

Bio, when you say polish, what is the goal? Do you find it cleans out water and food bits?

Raften's Post:

quote:

Bio, when you say polish, what is the goal? Do you find it cleans out water and food bits?

Some of both and it has other advantages.

I filter my oil to 600 microns before reacting but I can never get my restaurants to put the lids on the grease barrels so some rain water makes it in. You know that the guy who has to dump the grease is the one lowest on the ladder, and often the dumbest.

The glycerol will contain some methanol and unused catalyst so I'll leave some extra methanol in the oil and lower your titration a little. Glycerine loves water so I'll take your residual water (up to a point) to the bottom of the tank for easy removal along with the glycerine.

If you use the 5% prewash the glycerine will be less capable of holding water.

Also, as you said, most food particles should fall out with the glycerine.

bio-LOGIC,

quote:

just finished a 400 gallon batch using neutral's numbers and quickly passed the 3/27 test.

Great to hear!

2 Stage is great, if you have time. With large batches like yours, it is even more worthwhile.

Can you tell us about the mixing you use with that size of batch?

How long do you run each stage?

Vented?

Also, since there have been a couple of different versions of "neurtal's numbers", can you tell us exactly how much of cat and methanol you used?

Thanks!

Andrew

Hummm, I think I'll give that a try next week. I am having so much trouble with this rice oil I had better try new things.