Can anyone help?

I have recently tried two batches of biodiesel using the NaOH/Methanol method. The oil was new rapeseed, the NaOH was sold as 98% (drain cleaner) and the Methanol was sold as 99%+.

I dissolved 7.5 grams of NaOH in 500ml Methanol (a feat in itself!) and added this to 2 litres of the oil in a 5 litre container. I shook it violently for 20 seconds ish.

After one hour's settling I though I had a success. A dark layer had formed below a cloudy layer (split roughly 85/15 cloudy/dark). At
first I presumed the dark layer was glycerine and the cloudy layer was biodiesel that could be washed or at least made good somehow. It looks a bit like that traditional lemonade with the bits in.

On closer examination it seems that the darker layer is in fact BIODIESEL which is at the bottom for some reason.

I repeated the whole process and precisely the same thing happened again. I decided to try adding more catalyst so I disolved a further
4 grams in 250ml methanol. I added this to the second failed batch and shook. After an hour I checked again and the dark layer had more or less doubled but still the traditional lemonade above it.

The dark layer is an oily substance which really looks like biodiesel, but I haven't tried testing it yet.

Any thoughts?

I posted this on a different board too but I think they are too busy bickering to be bothered.

Later

The dark brown stuff is the glycerine to avoid. The light fluid on top is the biodiesel. You can test it with your fingers. Put some cooking oil on your fingers and feel it. Then, compare it to the finished light stuff. Lighter, isn't it? The longer you wait, the more glycerine comes out. The layer with white flakes is soap, so avoid it too. Pour off from the top your biodiesel.

Greg

From the pictures I had seen and what I have read, I thought the glycerine was much darker. This is a golden colour and crystal clear.

The first batch is now 4 days old and the top 90% still looks like traditional farmhouse lemonade.

I shall go and rub some between my fingers now. Then sell it for 20 cents a cup with ice at a summer fair.

Let it sit overnight, then decant (pump or siphon) most of the top layer into another container, and pour the bottom layer into an open pan to evaporate the methanol. In a couple days it should "solidify" into firm goo. That's mostly glycerine. Filter, wash, boil, burn, drive, etc, the top layer stuff - it's bio-diesel, and you're now qualified to post questions and answers on this board, if you're careful to give due credit when you use a Dr Pepper bottle.
Cheers,
JohnO

This is the soon to be patented Cleaning Fluid Bottle technique.

Thanks for the replies - you have given me new hope and encouragement.

New oil does make a mid brown glycerine soap. It's all the burnt oils and free fatty acids in used oil that makes the "glycerine" nearly black. I prefer to call the stuff "byproduct" because with new oil it's glycerine and free fatty acid soap.

It's possible your methanol or NaOH were wet. With new oil you should get very little soap. NaOH absorbs moisture, which also makes it chemically less effective - goes (I think) to sodium carbonate. Anyway brand new dry stuff is best.

Disgrunteled one,
I've had it take up to 10 days for the 'Traditional lemonade' to turn into the clear bio that we all know and love. I define clear as being able to read a page of normal typed text through the bottle.
Best of luck in you venture,

dva

I've tried using new oil whilst doing demos using the Dr Pepper method and had sometimes dubious, although visable, results. I put this down to the fact that possibly the cheapest oil does contain some water. As there is some water content in the seeds before crushing the water then has to be removed somehow. As this would cost more money perhaps this is why cheap oil is cheap? it will settle out allthough could take some time - filter it through a toilet roll will clean it up enough to use.

Simon
www.veggiepower.org.uk

Thanks for all the replies. You have given me new hope, not only in my biodiesel attempts, but in humanity too.

What do you think is the best way to speed up the clearing process? I like the sound of the toilet roll, but I think I need a couple of bits and pieces to make that work. Would one of those cheapo inline fuel filters work? Or would washing remove it all anyway?

Looking forward to getting it in the tank.

Disgruntled,
The cheapo inline filters are fairly coarse and will not clear BD until they start to clog up. By this time the flow rate has decreased somewhat.
If you want crystal clear BD filtering through a chemistry grade filter paper does the trick.
Slow it may be but a Whatman No 1 (11 micron) passes a beautiful drop of BD.

Regards,
Squarepeg.

I have now decanted the second batch from the (translucent) mixing vessel. It went cloudy at first when I poured it off but now is clear enough to read through (is that scientific enough?) and about as sexy as Cindy Crawford riding a pony in her panties. Apologies to the ladies who read this but I am very excited about my small but significant success.

The first one is still totally cloudy - I might try washing it with my garden sprayer just to settle my curiosity.

I suppose a syphon pump or even a mixing vessel with taps on the side would be a better way to remove the ester without disturbing the glycerine below.

What do you guys use?

PS You guys rock compared to those fuddy-duddies on the Yahoo! Group.

I use a hose and 12-volt fuel pump arrangement to pull off the liquid on top, keeping the hose above the byproduct layer. The glycerin wasn't reliably draining completely from my almost flat-bottom tank to drain from the bottom.
Cheers,
JohnO

Disgruntled, I have just returned from a 3 day music camp and doing mortal combat on the Yahoo board and have been bloodied by both.

I saw your posting on the Yahoo board, and nearly fell off my chair when Todd did not immediatly call you an "Ignorant bastard that does not deserve to live" when you said you had used what was obviously the Dr Pepper Technique. There may be hope for our world yet.

Yes, this is the only real discussion forum. The one at Yahoo should be called the: "Praise the Lord High Keith for HE is the Only one that Understands Biodiesel"

Remember, after producing in excess of 56,791 litres of Biodiesel in any one calendar year using the Dr Pepper method royalties are due. You can send them to me care of your favourite numbered Swiss Bank Account.

Good luck with your biodiesel!!

Squire Tilly SBC/IBA

Grass is just natures way of saying hi.

Does that mean a) an aesthetic appreciation of the thrill of walking barefoot on a cool damp lawn, or b) oh, what? forgot what I was, um ...

PS you can make biodiesel from it too

Squire Tilly from Paradise