just made the best looking bio yet and passed the 3/27 easily took it from the processor and ran it through the media and at the last minute decided to run it through the dry wash and found lots and lots fo suds so i decided to do the shakem test well bio top, soap between all of the very cloudy water on the bottom
So i guess we should put it in the wash tank and start MIST WASHING?
dont know what i was thinking but i thought if i passed the 3/27 ALL was fine but i guess not
thanks for help
perry

heat it up and drive off the methanol. Once all the methanol is gone, the soap will drop out. Filter this out, then run it through your media to clean up the tiny/final bits of it.

Also, how "used" is your media? Is it possible it is getting close to the point of being exhausted?

quote:

but i thought if i passed the 3/27 ALL was fine but i guess not
thanks for help

Perry,

The 3/27 only is an indicator for a complete conversion. You still have plenty of other "stuff" in your BD at the end of the conversion. It will vary greatly depending upon the quality of stock that you started with.

Good luck,

Jim...

we heated it to 130 degrees and ran it through the shower head for 4 hours had lots and lots of soap and then i did the shakem test failed miserably
i bought the media to keep from having to water wash and speed up the process the bio was very clear but when we started to dry all of the suds
we have only used the media for about 160 gallons and it is suppose to be good for about 500 gallons and then refresh
guess we will have to water wash after all
thanks
perry

You said you heated it up to 130 degrees (Fahrenheit?) and ran it through a shower head for about 4 hours and got lots and lots of soap...

is that before or after you posted your original message?

130F is below the boiling point of methanol, so, it is possible that you have not driven it all off.

The soap, were you able to scoop / filter it out?

The media, you said you only ran about 150 gallons-ish through it. Were the gallons processed similarly? If you have massive amounts of soap in your biodiesel, you will exhaust the media more rapidly.

the shake-um up test is about conversion. I am not terribly familiar with the test yet as i haven't done it myself yet. But, i think perhaps if you are at some intermediate point between unwashed and washed, perhaps that could produce an errant result. Otherwise, if i am incorrect about that, it means your biodiesel is underconverted and you need to reprocess.

Resolve getting all the methanol out, then scoop / filter all your soap out. Most of the soap drops out as the methanol concentration gets really low, so, keep heating and spraying until you are not getting anymore soap.

Dogma721
thanks for reply This batch was run through process then run through the media and it was very clear and passed the 3/27 test fine
but i at the last minute decided to run it through the drying tank just in case so we heated the tank to 130 degrees F and ran the pump for 4 hours and we dipped 5 gallons of foam off top and then let settle
next day there was a foam on top of biolike yellow goo that we strained off that has mostly turned liquid again
dont think media is doing the job am going to start misting today and see what kind of water i get
thanks
perry

quote:

Originally posted by lampman:
. . . well bio top, soap between all of the very cloudy water on the bottom
. . .

Are you sure your problem is soap instead of mono- and di- glycerides due to under conversion?

You described "bio top", OK.

You described "very cloudy water on the bottom", OK.

You described "soap between all". This causes a problem.

Soap is soluble in wash water (assuming the wash water is not too hard). If what you see in the middle layer is actually soap, then there would be no middle layer. The soap would be dissolved in the water.

Under converted fuel contains larger than normal amounts of mono- and di-glycerides. The mono- and di-glycerides do not "drop out" in the 3/27 test as they are both soluble in methanol.

Mono- and di-glycerides form an emulsion with water. The emulsion will settle out of the biodiesel, but float on the water below.

Therefore, under conversion of your oil could be causing your washing problems. If so, then fix the reaction before you waste more time trying to solve the problem by working on "the wrong end".

quote:

Originally posted by Dogma721:
. . .
the shake-um up test is about conversion. . . .

You may have mis-spoke. The shake-um up test is about soap removal. The 3/27 test is about conversion.

yes, thanks producer i did mis speak.

Thanks for catching that.

I said there were 3 layers but it is only 2bio on top and cloudy water on bottom
and we are water washing now and i think that problem will take care of itself with the washing and the dry washing
BUT my newest question is when we run the bio through the media we dont lose very much at all
but when we use the wet washing we loose gallons of bio. am i to believe that the media is not going to take all of the soap and meth out like the washing will do
when we use the media it clears up very good just like when we use the dry wash shower head
thanks
perry