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How Do You Dispose Of Your Glycerin?

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http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/719605551/m/60510636

June 03, 2010, 09:04 PM
Legal Eagle
How Do You Dispose Of Your Glycerin?
Highly concentrated glycerin (like out stuff) along with nitric and sulfuric acid and you get an extremely unstable form of nitroglycerin.This is the stuff that killed Alfred Nobel's brother in the process of developing a stable explosive.

I've said it time and again, before adding ANYTHING to a concentrated glycerin please read the MSDS on it to see the compatibility issues.

HTH



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


June 03, 2010, 10:47 PM
dkenny
what about using septic tank bacteria/enzymes to consume the glycerin?

just wonder if anyone has tried using them?

Today I tried spreading some on my BD waste water drain area..the water isn't a problem but trapped oil in the water is..might seem off topic but some BD can also be trapped in the glycerin..this causes the same type of problem..areas that don't decompose very well. they might take a long time which for me is a problem..

and what about having too much glycerin? I think in all of last winter's heating season we used about 80 gallons of glycerin..about 8 batches of biodiesel worth..or about 1/10th that I need to get rid of..

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
June 04, 2010, 02:41 PM
spanky1
For those that do a water pre-wash, has anyone been able to make firelogs out of the glycerine? I made some with sawdust, but they don't seem to burn particularly well.
June 04, 2010, 06:17 PM
dkenny
spanky,

yes I prewash.
I haven't noticed any problems burning the glycerin sawdust logs.
I just wrap the glycerin/sawdust up in newspaper and toss an burning fire.

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
June 05, 2010, 09:42 PM
Hamlin205
quote:
Originally posted by HelpingHand:
quote:
Originally posted by Wild and Wonderful Productions:
We use the KOH reacted glycerin for fertilizer on the farm. Mix it 30/1 with water and put in in our sprayer. Haul it behind the tractor spraying the fields. Our fields are a foot taller than the neighborsSmile


Might keep an eye on your soil pH. It could slowly become caustic.

I would generally recommend neutralizing with a phosphate or nitrogen containing acid. I have not done it myself, but I know this is being done. I'll bet someone on here knows more about this.


How many gallons of 30/1 are applied per acre ??
Would the local Co-Op or fertiliser company have an interest in using as a treatmenet for
lawns, fields and pastures ??
we sell as degreaser in 55 gallon drums to a local company using it on a wash line,
wanting to pursue personal soaps as well
Thanks
Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
June 06, 2010, 05:13 PM
dckfly
I've dumping it down the drain which I suppose has the same effect as what Graydon refered to in his post but it's a hassle since I have to carry down to the basement from the garage - the only part of making BD that I truely dred.

Hoping I can find an organization that can use it and would come pick it - almost a wet dream!


Dana Knight "dckfly"
Boulder, CO

Chevy Silverado Duramax
3 VW TDI (wife and friends)
June 06, 2010, 05:15 PM
john galt
Do you have any friends with greenhouses? Placed in cubies glycerol makes perfect thermal mass.



June 06, 2010, 11:24 PM
keelec
You have to have anhydrous conditions to make nitroglycerin... including fuming nitric acid.

If you use a dilute aqueous solution of both glycerin and Nitric acid you should be pretty safe.
June 07, 2010, 01:08 AM
antifuel1
I have been feeding some of mine to my cattle. First I tried it demethed for 3 weeks, then I tried it without demething it,since cows are basicly anirobic digesters anyway, and produce vast quanities of methane gas daily. I feed grain screenings, and Hay or grass. plus free access to glycerin. visually inspecting the cow pies showed much better and more complete digestion of the grain and hay when feeding glycerin that was not demethed. I would tend to suspect texastonys nails more so than the methanol.but that is individual choice. could also have been many other factors that played on the cows passing. [did she have a smile on her face, like death by chocalate.
June 07, 2010, 01:35 AM
Wild and Wonderful Productions
Not a clue. He just sprays it on the fields as he goes. He goes through about 300 gallons on 3-5 acres. Not sure if co-op would want it or not. We've used it as fertilizer for about 75 gallons now and as I said, our fields are a foot taller than the neighborsSmile


2001 Dodge Cummins
2006 VW Jetta TDI
both on B100
June 07, 2010, 02:19 AM
heatbeater
Has anybody used demethed glycerin to enhance compost piles? I have a pile of lawn clippings I'm tempted to try it on.
June 08, 2010, 12:13 PM
GoldenIsles
When I first started producing on a homebrew level I would compost the methanol-laden glycerol byproduct in wood chips and other organic matter produced by our landscape operation. It seemed to work fine but as our production picked up over time we saw our compost pile becoming more sticky and saturated. I didnt know much about compost but sensed that this was way over balanced and wasn't working. When it rained I would notice glycerol running down the hill. yuk!

Then I read the "Best Practices Manual" produced by Penn State and it became important for me to explore other methods for "responsile disposal". (http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/pdfs/agrs103.pdf)

We tried several different things including the Turk Burner, making Glycerine Logs (fail) , and even boiling out the methanol in a seperate Appleseed with a vent pipe to the atmosphere before composting. This is inheirently dangerous and not good for the environment.

THE BEST SCENERIO I have experienced was when I had the support of local small-scale commercial producers that have helped me dispose of my glycerol responsibly. For instance, I've managed farm-scale biodiesel operations in SoCal and WNC that produced on average 100-150 gallons of gylcerol by product per week. In both cases the local producers would gladly take my refilled methanol barrels of glycerol and reclaim the methanol for themselves. After that they'd lump the glycerine with their own bulk amount from their production that was later sold by the pound.
I didn't get any of the reclaimed methanol and I didn't get any $ of the sales for the glycerol, but you know what? I was totally happy with the deal. NO headache for compost turning and peace of mind for responsible disposal. This, my friend, was a real "win win" because it benfitted both parties. Did I just coin the phrase "Fair Trade Glycerol". Smile In addition, I was able to buy my chemicals there on occassion.

Back to the topic of composting, its clear that alot of runoff can occur when you over saturate your pile. This can happen quickly, especially when you already have the oily mess of food scraps you strained out from your oil to deal with. In addition, contaminating ground water is a real concern if you land apply glycerol. I think the above scenerio is ideal when it is available because for most entry level homebrewers methanol reclaimation is an advanced topic. Most don't want to make (or need that much) bar soap. Most don't have cattle to feed it out to either.

The most common methods in the homebrew community, I believe, for glycerol disposal are land applying, boiling off, burning, down the drain, and stockpiling. Each of these has inheirent safety, health, and environmental issues. Therefore I think the topic of "Responsible Glycerol Disposal" is important as the topic of "Fuel Quality" for biodiesel homebrewers. And I think the small scale commercial producers that are sympathetic might can help.

Good Luck Everyone,
GoldenIsles
http://www.collectivebiodiesel...es/GoldenIslesPP.pdf
June 08, 2010, 07:12 PM
dckfly
I've gone down a similar road. I tried composting but it became quickly obvious that was not a good or long term solution. I then started disposing ot if down the drain (to water treatment not the creek)which I was some what OK with since, as I understand it, the methanol aids the sewage break down process and glycerin is biodegradable. The process of getting it down the drain was a large pain in the ass so I came here to find an alternative. This discussion is very well timed for that reason. I got an idea from the responses and called the University of Colorados Biodiesel program. They make BD for their bus fleet and make degreaser and cleaning products from the bi-product which they sell to fund the program. They want my glycerin and I am happy to give it to them. The fact that the university makes money off my bi-product that's helps fund their program is a bonus!

Graydon, thanks for kicking off this topic and thanks to all who contributed. As I said, very well timed.


Dana Knight "dckfly"
Boulder, CO

Chevy Silverado Duramax
3 VW TDI (wife and friends)
June 08, 2010, 08:58 PM
GoldenIsles
I agree with dckfly and thank graydon for starting this thread. I really hope it continues. To me this seems to be the "sticky wicket" or however you spell it for biodiesel brewers. BTW I loved the comment made by dckfly stating "I've dumping it down the drain which I suppose has the same effect as what Graydon refered to in his post but it's a hassle since I have to carry down to the basement from the garage - the only part of making BD that I truely dred."

I love honest answers.

The Penn State Manual states on page 19 "Suffice it to say that responsible glycerol
disposal is a major sticking point for small-scale producers"

Here is a link to something that I have found interesting and would like to more about:

http://glycerineburner.com/glycerin_burner.php

Does anyone know more about this?

This link may be a side topic, but I think what is clear is that there needs to be an "Appleseed way" to deal with glycerol or, like I suggested, an infrastructure from the small scale commercial producers to assist homebrewers with their responsible glycerin disposal.

please let the comments continue.
Cheers>
June 08, 2010, 10:34 PM
dckfly
quote:
BTW I loved the comment made by dckfly stating "I've dumping it down the drain which I suppose has the same effect as what Graydon refered to in his post but it's a hassle since I have to carry down to the basement from the garage - the only part of making BD that I truely dred."



I live in a tri-level so I have to go up and down two flights of stairs across nice oak floors and some carpet. Rarely do I complete the job without at least spilling or tracking some in the house. Does NOT make the wife happy! She is very happy with my new disposal arrangement.


Dana Knight "dckfly"
Boulder, CO

Chevy Silverado Duramax
3 VW TDI (wife and friends)
June 08, 2010, 11:20 PM
GoldenIsles
i see. well maybe the part about "the only part of making BD that I truely dred"rings true with me because i feel good about my fuel making but not necessarily the byproduct disposing.

When it makes sense in an area, like handing it to a producer, that is wha tencourages me to keep going. Otherwise, land applying, after what I know now, is sketchy. I'm just saying.
June 09, 2010, 02:53 AM
ebztz
quote:
Originally posted by dckfly:
I then started disposing ot if down the drain (to water treatment not the creek)which I was some what OK with since, as I understand it, the methanol aids the sewage break down process and glycerin is biodegradable.
This is a bit like adding water to the methoxide mix, because water is in used in the biodiesel process for washing. Order is important. Waste treatment is a staged process, and while methanol is useful in some (typically the last) stages, it can be detrimental to the earlier ones.


"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

George Orwell
June 09, 2010, 08:31 AM
Turner BioDiesel
Check your local sanimax or other, that picks up oil. We have a sanimax container here at our shop and they said we can put in veg oil, glycerin, and BioDiesel. The glycerin and BD help with refinning the oil they said. They will even empty my totes full of glycerin if I want them to. (I dont, Its more heat in the cold winters here) This is what we were told but it may be different elsware. The majority of oil that gets picked up here gets made into fuel.


www.turnerbiodiesel.com
www.turnerindustriesinc.com
Metal Fabrication and BioDiesel Products. Dry Wash Towers,Processors,Home Heating,Centrifuges,Steel Drum Cone
June 09, 2010, 11:55 AM
Graydon Blair
GoldenIsles
I spoke to glycerinburners.com a few weeks ago.
They're kind of hard to get in contact with (we played phone tag for a few weeks), but he has a glycerin burner that will burn 100% glycerin. You don't have to blend the glycerin with other oils either to burn it like you do with some others on the market.

BioLyle (Lyle Rudensey in Seattle) knows a guy in his area that bought one & loves it. He said it was kind of tricky to get it all set up right, but once it was set up, it burns the glycerin really, really well.

The guy at glycerinburners.com said that it does put out a lot of heat and if I remember right their minimum size burner handles 500,000 BTU.

But, it's definitely an option if you need a lot of heat & have a lot of glycerin on hand.




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June 09, 2010, 07:39 PM
GoldenIsles
Thank you for the info. and attention to that post, Graydon. Seems this unit wouldn't be a practical remedy for homebrewers. But for larger scale producer, yes. I'd love to hear data feedback from someone using this unit.

What is clear is that the small scale homebrewers need a practical remedy for disposing of their glycerol responsibly. I'd like to suggest that a thread also be started on "How Do You Dispose Of your Wash Water" as well and see what people are doing. To me this is another sticking point.

Heres one more interesting quote from the Penn State Manual pg 19 under the heading "By-Product handling and Disposing"

-"The answer to the question “What do you do with the
glycerol and wash water?” is a moving target. Rules and
recommendations regarding legal and environmentally
responsible by-product disposal are likely to change over
time as research is carried out, and the regulatory agencies
consider the applications of the law."