BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Making Biodiesel    New Processing Method?
Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 12

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
New Processing Method?
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
Dennis
-now thats an interesting thought,I can easily try that as I do AE prior to every base process.
-I am just going over paddys original thread, and see that he only has to mix for 5 minutes, then just lets it sit for the reaction to complete. he has also added up to 50% more wvo with the required methanol at the end of the first reaction and given time this wvo also gets converted. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Tom

I'm reading it now too... hope DD, Bucky and of few others stop by this thread for a look.
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I just made contact with jamesrl and asked if he would check in here. he does this method, so should be able to answer our questions. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I found the paper on biodiesel production, just can't seem to link it here? google search Biodiesel Production and Quality the pdf file is there. in short, "under reaction it states, the alcohol/catalyst mix is then charged into a closed reaction vessel and the oil or fat is added"


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Excellent! working a double tomorrow so i'll catch up tomorrow night

thanks!
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Thanks Tom,

Reaction. The alcohol/catalyst mix is then charged into a closed reaction vessel and the oil or fat is added.

PDF Docprod_quality.pdf (44 Kb, 50 downloads)
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Closing non-observation for the evening... Of those using AAF on the other side of the pond I found none using base/base.
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
dennis
I read that using the eductors does not lend itself to base/base processing. seems to me that they geter done in one step, and that is music to my ears!!!! Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Biotom:
dennis
I read that using the eductors does not lend itself to base/base processing. seems to me that they geter done in one step, and that is music to my ears!!!! Tom


Well...I wouldn't call it a single step, more like a step and a half. The 10% oil in to inject the methoxide would be the half.

It is also music to my ears.....I want to know more about this.

James L
 
Location: Central Alabama (Marion Junction) | Registered: February 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I cannot think of a good reason why there is a 10% charge... some sort of stabilization to get the reaction started? With a little tweaking the 10% charge could probably be eliminated as well.

"Why do you think methoxide has to be feed in slowly? A very old theory that's been proved to be wrong. Dump it as fast as possible. In fact you can put 100% of the methoxide in first, Paddy's AAF method." -- jamesrl

There is no mention of a charge in the 2007 product quality document although the generality of that document comes into question.

I look forward to testing. If it is possible to lower the base amount yields could approach 98%-100% on a fairly consistent basis ...the mol returns.
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
A little more research finds many documents with the following verbiage;

alcohol/catalyst mix is then charged into a closed reaction vessel and the oil or fat is added
OR
alcohol/catalyst mix is then charged into a closed reaction vessel and the biolipid (vegetable or animal oil or fat) is added

So its been cribbed often

The earliest document I found is dated November 29, 2006 (most are not dated)

No date... but the best written (IMO) I found is here

http://www.fact-index.com/b/bi/biodiesel.html
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Trying to get my head around the 'possibility' that I have been doing this BACKWARDS FOR YEARS is a little disturbing.
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
J Long
-from what I have read there, the reason for adding 10% iol first was to get sufficient volume in the tank to start the mixing process. In the video, methanol was added then the oil.
-eductors need to be about 3" under the surface of the liquid to work properly, so in base/base, after the byproduct is removed from the first base stage they would probably be above or near the surface of the liquid, reducing there effectiveness for the second base stage. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Dennis
-you need to read that document again, look under the heading reaction! Big Grin Tom

-"There is no mention of a charge in the 2007 product quality document although the generality of that document comes into question."

-so far the only draw back that I see is we would need a tank to preheat the wvo first. there is an upside however, ther would be no requirement for an active heater in the processor or processor plumbing. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Ah! stupid me... HEAT OFF reactor pump/stirrers OFF, load tank with methoxide, oil at temp, load approximately 10% of the oil, start reactor pump/stirrers ,keep injecting oil till full ...HEAT ON if necessary. thanks tom
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
My oil is pre-heated as I always do HTAE
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I should add that my oil is also pre-heated for HTAE as I have dried the oil in preparation for HTAE
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Dennis
-I'm not sure that this process will work as well after AE because of the water that is generated in that process and also the water that is generated when the acid is neutralized in the base process. We will have to experament on this one as the AAF process is not tolerant of water or higher FFA's Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
I have thought about that. I may be better off (or not) because I use sodium bentonite in an attempt suck up some of the water created by the process. My experience is similar to Buckeye's in that final T has consistently dropped a point or two when using bentonite as opposed to not using it.
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I have not however hooked up the bentonite filter to the trans-esterification process... yet. I do intend to give that a try as well.
 
Location: New Orleans | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 12 
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Making Biodiesel    New Processing Method?

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014