I'm trying to setup a BioD processor in my appartment. For obvious reasons, I need to keep it small and keep it clean. I figure a 5 gallon (20 litre) system should be about the right size. But before I invest, I'd like to get some opinions.

My plan is to use a plastic (HDPE, of course) 5 gallon container and a water pump. I'd heat the oil with an immersion heater.

Here are my main problems:

1) If I go with the immersion heater, will it melt the plastic? What sort of setup are others using (heater, seals, etc)?

2) Will the methoxide, glycerine, or biodiesel mess up the water pump (I've found a cheap one originally for a pond, so it's plastic)? Will the heat? Once again, what are others using?

3) At what stage is the methanol/methoxide ok to have uncovered indoors?

4) Anything I forgot?

I'd like details about other's setups.

I've done lots of mixes in 5-gallon plastic buckets, but I do them outside because of the fire and health dangers of methanol fumes. A "touchless" processor makes better sense if you're forced to process inside.
Here's how I mix in 5-gallon buckets: to a plastic-snap-on lid is bolted a small, very safe motor of about 1/20th hp, who's shaft extends through a close-fitting hole in the lid. The hole is greased with heavy silicone grease that doesn't dissolve in methanol, and forms a vapor seal, though not a pressure seal. To the shaft I have soldered a steel rod that nearly reaches the bottom of the bucket when the lid is snapped on. The end of the rod has a small propellor (about 1.5 inches) soldered to it, made of flattened copper tubing. This has been my methoxide mixer for a couple years now, but I've also mixed many batches of biodiesel with it.
For methoxide: measure 3-1/2 qt methanol into the dry and clean bucket. Dump in the appropriate amount of lye. Snap the lid on. Start the motor.
For the oil: heat about 4-1/2 gallons dry oil to 120-150degF by whatever safe means you have(I use a propane Turkey cooker to heat it before opening any methanol)
For mixing: stop the motor, let the methoxide settle for a minute to verify everything's dissolved, remove the lid, pour in the hot oil using all due care and precautions, snap the lid back on, start the motor, let it run for a while, shut it off, then cover the bucket with a blanket to hold the heat in for a few hours or overnight. Pour off the BD, deal with the settled glycerine as required.
The green plastic "pickle" buckets from hamburger joints seem totally unaffected by the methoxide. The motor is a "shaded-pole" surplus motor, so it's sparkless and cheap.
Cheers,
JohnO

quote:

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Originally posted by orbiteleven:
I'm trying to setup a BioD processor in my appartment. For obvious reasons, I need to keep it small and keep it clean. I figure a 5 gallon (20 litre) system should be about the right size. But before I invest, I'd like to get some opinions.

My plan is to use a plastic (HDPE, of course) 5 gallon container and a water pump. I'd heat the oil with an immersion heater.

Here are my main problems:

1) If I go with the immersion heater, will it melt the plastic? What sort of setup are others using (heater, seals, etc)?
For these small quantities I would just heat the oil on the stove top.

2) Will the methoxide, glycerine, or biodiesel mess up the water pump (I've found a cheap one originally for a pond, so it's plastic)? Will the heat? Once again, what are others using?

3) At what stage is the methanol/methoxide ok to have uncovered indoors?

Methanol is NEVER safe to have uncovered inside, especially if it is hot which it will always be, when making methoxide or after processing in warm oil

4) Anything I forgot?

I would strongly suggest that the easiest way for you to make these small quantities of biodiesel inside is to use an up-sized version of the World Famous Dr Pepper Technique (Pat Pend).

I'd like details about other's setups.

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Rev Tilly SBC/IBA

My tip is to try not to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

I make 100-150 Litre batches in a 200Litre drum which I mix with a 40x12 bit of pine.... I don't like the idea of sparking electric motors near 30 Litres of Methanol....

I use a petrol heater under the drum to warm it up. This gets turned off before the metanol comes out....

I use the aqueous soln for the NaOH as I find it much easier to measure volumes than weight accurately. I mix the NaOH and the Methanol in a HDPE 60L drum - again I mix with a stick to make sure that all the NaOH is in solution.

I do a couple of 1 Litre test batches using Tilly's method before I commit the whole batch....

Good luck

Paul
Brisbane Australia
- and yes I do make BD!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Tilly:
_I would strongly suggest that the easiest way for you to make these small quantities of biodiesel inside is to use an up-sized version of the http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=447609751&f=719605551&m=857600061 (Pat Pend)._
_Rev Tilly SBC/IBA_

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Tilly - how did I know you'd suggest the "Dr. Pepper Method."

I'm working on my "Dr Pepper" batches as we speak. I'm just trying to figure out what I'll do afterwards. I can't exactly shake a 5gal/20ltr pail the same way I do the 2ltr. It seems the only good pictures on the web are of large-load processors in people's garages.

Thanks for the advice, and keep it comming!!!

1. Take hold of the handle/top and tilt the container onto a corner. Then rock back and forth violently.

2. Make a simple rectangular cradle from 4 pieces of 2X4 and lay the drum on the cradle. Put the centre of the cradle on a pipe/fulcrum and rock the cradle back and forth.

I have used both methods with good results.

When you open the mixer up make sure you are outside as methanol fumes will come out.

Rev Tilly

Ok, so maybe I can mix it like a 2-litre, but does that get the reaction going well enough? Reember that I am trying to put together an enclosed (or semi-enclosed) system for indoor use. So fumes == bad.

How much exposure do you really have to the methanol/methoxide if you keep it sealed except when adding methanol and WVO?

How long does it take for the mixture to become "safe" to breathe?

Is there anyone doing 5gal/20litre batches completely indoors?

quote:

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Originally posted by orbiteleven:
Ok, so maybe I _can_ mix it like a 2-litre, but does that get the reaction going well enough?

What I have described above kept my car in fuel for about 6 months, although I did most of it in 6 and 10 litre containers. I found the 20 litres just too heavy and unwieldly. Old timers disease you know.

Reember that I am trying to put together an enclosed (or semi-enclosed) system for _indoor use_. So fumes == bad.

How much exposure do you really have to the methanol/methoxide if you keep it sealed except when adding methanol and WVO?

Very little exposure when just adding the methoxide to the WVO provided the methoxide is in a sealed container.

How long does it take for the mixture to become "safe" to breathe?

After it is washed. I can always smell the methanol when I open the reactor. Possibly if you leave it cool overnight in the reactor or do a glycerine wash with 5% water?

Is there __anyone__ doing 5gal/20litre batches completely indoors?

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Rev Tilly SBC/IBA

Try using the 5 gallon containers the oil comes in from your restaraunt. I've mixed methox and bio in them. Just fill and rock and roll, rock hard without lifting side to side.

3.5 gallons oil works well.

You can also use a one gallon jug to mix methox, like a vinegar jug or laundry detergent not a clear juice jug.

I once got oil right out of a fryer at a fish joint and it was still hot over 30 minutes of driving later. Had time to mix methox too.

Also get a 5 gallon metal paint bucket from a paint store to heat in. Propane burner works great and will heat a 55 gallon drum when you get there. I would recomend heating outside if you can. Tell the neighbors your cooking a turkey.

You can also get 5 gallon jugs at race shops that are thicker than the ones the oil comes in safe for the long run.

I already have The world famous Dr Pepper Rock and roll technique (Pat Pend).
All royalties go to Tilly through your favourite Numbered Swiss Bank Account.

Fr Tilly SBC/IBA Church of the holy counting house div

It wouldn't be too difficult to build a 5-gallon magnetic stirer. Drop a cow-magnet into the plastic bucket, set it on top of a box containing a motor with matching magnet on it's shaft. When the lower magnet turns, the one inside the bucket follows. This lets you leave the lid snapped on all the time it's inside the house.
I may try it myself.
Cheers,
JohnO

I found a 47 gal/hr "mini water pump" that I figured I could use for mixing, or moving fluid around.

Then I realized it's plastic. It's a small fountain pump. I don't know if it'll hold up to the caustic chemicals. Will it get messed up if I try to use it as a mixing pump? A pump for removing glycerin?

Thanks again for all the advice.

I tried a cheap submersible plastic water fountain pump in a 5-gallon bucket mix. It worked great. One time. Next time it wouldn't run at all, even though the little impeller turned freely. I think the seals leaked stuff into the innerds, where they did bad things.
Cheers,
JohnO

This one looks like it has an "in" and an "out" that could be connected to hoses (it's ebay, so I don't have too much info). Would taking it apart and re-sealing it with silicone help?

Into the great wide open...

If it's cheap, give it a try. Some plastics are unaffected by our chemicals, so you might get lucky. You'll still need to seal the mixer to keep methanol fumes inside and away from ignition sources and for your health.
I've had some promising luck with a surplus washing machine pump - cheap, big openings (1-1/4), and designed to move a lot of hot dirty alkaline liquid. It uses a shaded pole motor (no sparks), and has a built-in cooling fan. I'd planned to try building another mix tank with it, someday. Not perfectly suited to your project, but other folks might like to know about it. I can also send anyone interested some photos of my 5-gallon bucket lid mixer.

Cheers,
JohnO

[This message was edited by johno on 02 October 2003 at 03:37 PM.]

[QUOTE] I can also send anyone interested some photos of my 5-gallon bucket lid mixer.

Cheers,
JohnO

[QUOTE]
I'll take you up on that:
Paul.Modern@Dartmouth.edu
TIA

Hayduke Lives!

Thanks!!!

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Into the great wide open...

[This message was edited by orbiteleven on 02 October 2003 at 08:43 PM.]