I have been experimenting with using filtered wvo as a lubricant replaceing hydrocarbon 20w 40 as an engine oil as well as running the car on BD,with good results,it appears that filtered WVO has very similar properties to petro oil.I have been using vege oil in my engine and have noticed a decrease in oil consuption (this is a worn engine that was using oil)There is no noticeable difference in engine noise or oil pressure ,I can truely call my ute a pure vege van,does any body have any feedback on the quality or specifics on the properties of WVO for this purpose,I am using pure cottonseed filtered to 50 micron top layer with no ffa evident.My research todate appears that this product is very similar to products marketed as synthetic lubricants ?Am I not infact just bypassing the fossilisation stage and bypassing the oil companies reliance

About 20 years ago I tried to get a Fuji .20 cubic inch (about 3.4cc) glow engine to run on veg oil (oh for those days of youth and innocence [and stupidity]). Needless to say it didn't.

Before I got around to running it on its more usual fuel of methanol, I noticed that the whole thing had gone mouldy.

If you have an oil leak and it ends up all over the engine/engine bay the same may happen to you (but I hope it doesn't).

H

Apparently, this used to be done in racing circles a long while ago, Castrol "r" was allegedly castor oil with a little moly added. It worked well--for a while, but if used for more than a few hours it would start to thicken and go stringy, This may explain why your engine is now using less lube oil, the polimerisation around the ring land area of the piston is reducing clearances!--A better idea, would be to run on SVO, sourced from the oil=pan, with a supply coming from tank on some kind of "ball-cock" arrangement to maintain level, the oil then is constantly changed, as you drive, and may reduce this problem

HC, Wacky Ideas Dept. SWC.

Love It

Hintertech

I note you suggest that the veg oil is like 20 - 40, which means you think it is a high viscosity index oil. This is correct and a good feature. It certainly also has good lubricity. So what is wrong with using it?

1. FFA. You say there was no sign of FFA but how do you know? Used cooking oil usually has from 1 to 10% FFA. Petroleum oil has additives which neutralize acids. This provides a buffer against rising acid concentration.

2. Extreme pressure additives. Veg oil has none so one should not think of using it in a gearbox or, particularly, a differential.

3. Antioxidants. Petro oil has antioxidants added. These delay the onset of oxidation and prolong the life of the oil. Veg oil is more prone to oxidation than petro oil because it is more unsaturated.

There are also other things like dispersants but these are probably not necessary with a veg oil because of its greater solvent properties.

The greatest danger in using veg oil is from oxidation. This is slow at first but accelerates. It can eventually result in a relatively rapid rise in viscosity. You could add an antioxidant to delay this effect.

There is a difference between veg oil and synthetic ester lubricating oil. Veg oil is liquid because it contains largely unsaturated chains, mostly of about 18 carbons in length. If chains of this length are saturated, like stearate, it will be solid at room temp. Synthetic oil is saturated and to be liquid the chains must be shorter, about 8 carbons long. So synthetic oil is inherently more stable and its useful life must therefore be longer. It is the double bond in the unsaturated chains that oxidize.

If using veg oil start with oil low in FFA, preferably new, and monitor the viscosity. When some rise in viscosity is detected change the oil. If buying new oil select one that has the least polyunsaturation. Olive oil, high oleic sunflower and canola are better than soy or normal sunflower.

If you must start with used veg oil you could try an experiment with caustic refining to remove the FFA. Do the usual titration for biodiesel manufacture then add the calculated amount of caustic soda to some water, leaving out the 3.5 g/l catalytic amount, shake gently with the oil and allow to settle then wash till wash water is almost clear. Trouble with this is that it may take a long time to settle. A centrifuge is used for this step in industry. If you can get caustic refining to work without a centrifuge it would be pretty interesting on this forum.


[This message was edited by neutral on 15 September 2001 at 10:42 PM.

[This message was edited by neutral on 15 September 2001 at 10:44 PM.]

Neutral,

Interesting!

This confirms somethings i've been hearing about. There is a company here that uses coconut oil plus some additive and sells it as 2T oil for motorcycles. This additive, could it just be BD? Coconut oil has very little unsaturated acids. What else is needed to be a good 2T oil.

Thanks

Ken C.

vege oil works but not for long

I ran veg oil 100%in my sd22 nissan for about a month,When its new or warm it works a treat but
after a while it solidifies and makes starting difficult and dangerous to the engine,it soon warms up
and liquifies but as neutral has explained the free fatty acids are unpredictable.
More info in Aus page 20w?

Hi there Hintertech,

I see, maybe some additives to the vegetable could help it. Some heat stabilizer and then some acid scavengers. Does it make sense? Easiest way i think would be to put some commercial grade motor oil and dilute it with vegetable oil. This way the additives present could help the VO.

I want to try some of these ideas but know of no such method to test it(without breaking the bank) any ideas?

Regarding oil for motorcycles, do u have to mix the oil with the petrol or is there a place in the crank case like a cars.

If the motorcycle has a 4 stroke engine, there is a seperate tank for oil just like a car, however the crankcase is usually dry. The oil is pumped straight back to it's tank and fed to the engine from the oil tank.

If it is a 2 stroke engine, some engines require the oil to be mixed with the petrol, and some engines have a special tank that you pour the oil into and the oil is mixed automatically depending on throttle setting, and half a dozen other things.

Of course my info is 25 years old, so maybe things have changed.

Tilly SBC/IBA Where's the harley's hand shifter?

Noah, explaining delays in building the Ark:
' ... Then the Army Corps of Engineers wanted a map of the proposed new flood plain, so I sent them a globe.'

Thanks Tilly,

Anyone out there to tried to fiddle with vegetable oil in their motorcycle and got stuck? What did you have to do to get the motor back into shape. Just checking what to expect before i get myself into trouble(which i am going to)

Ken C.

Be aware that most 4-stroke motorcycle engines run their gearbox in the same oil as the engine. I doubt that VO is suitable as a gear oil. Be aware also that most 4-stroke bike engine designs have wet clutches too, ie a multi-plate clutch running in oil. It is possible that VO isn't very clutch-compatible either

I like the idea of using VO as the engine oil in a 2-stroke. Typical (eg bike, chainsaw etc) 2-strokes have a "total-loss" oiling principle that releases lubrication oil into the environment through the exhaust. Not all of it is burnt, hence the reputation of 2-strokes as polluters. Well, releasing food into the environment (ie VO)can't be so bad can it?.
My 2-stroke bike had a separate gear oil (Hypoid EP90).

I recently went to an SEI (Solar Energy International) BD workshop. There was a representive there from a company in the USA that is selling VO for use in place of Petroleum crankcse oil. He said of all the testing they had done that Canola oil was the best to use because of the intial low fatty acid content.

Bio Bill

I loved High Compression's idea about using SVO from the Engine pan with a ball cock arangment, may be if you removed the Oil filter and attached your input and output pipes inplace of the oil filter?