Ok I finished my appleseed processor. I have 25 gallons of Used oil. I did a tratration last night and it tritrated at 1.5 as long as I did it correctly. My questions are.

1. Do you heat the oil before you tritrate?
2. How long do you circulate the oil after you add the methoxide?
3.How long do you let it settle after you turn the pump off?

Thanks any help would be appreciated

1) No. But if its hot, that's okay.
2) That completely depends on your plumbing size and pump size. I have a 40 gallon water heater with a harbor freight pump and I run it 2 hours per reaction or more.
3) I let it settle overnight. Drain until I see couldyness in the glycerol. Let it settle for another 30 minutes and slowly drain again until most of the draining fluid looks like biodiesel. I capture the glycerol and use it to pretreat my next batch of WVO.

How I pretreat with glycerol:
Load the desired amount of WVO into the reactor. Take a sample. Heat up the WVO. Add in Glycerol from previous batch. Mix for 1 hour. Settle for 1 hour. Drain as stated above. You will effectively lower ythe titration value of your batch, scrub your WVO for entrained water, and scrub your Glycerol of the majority of its entrained methanol. Then proceed as normal with Methoxide.

I hope that helps.

Chad...

quote:

2. How long do you circulate the oil after you add the methoxide?

There are a lot of variables regarding processing time. The conversion is not complete until you pass the 3/27 test. I would not turn off your processor until this step is successful. If you can't pass the 3/27 (even with extended processing time), then something was probably miscalculated and you will need to reprocess. You can do a search here and find ample info regarding reprocessing.

Also, as PwrStrk6spd mentioned, once you get going, save your glycerin and use it to pretreat your next batch of WVO. It really helps the process and it's a simple way to recapture some/most of your leftover methanol, lower your titration value, reduce moisture content, and increase your yield.

Jim...

BOOYAHH! Now go get 'em!

quote:

How I pretreat with glycerol:
Load the desired amount of WVO into the reactor. Take a sample. Heat up the WVO. Add in Glycerol from previous batch. Mix for 1 hour. Settle for 1 hour. Drain as stated above. You will effectively lower ythe titration value of your batch, scrub your WVO for entrained water, and scrub your Glycerol of the majority of its entrained methanol. Then proceed as normal with Methoxide.

So do you do your tritration test after you pretreat or still use the number from the begining. Also what do you mean by scrub your WVO and glycerol.

quote:

There are a lot of variables regarding processing time. The conversion is not complete until you pass the 3/27 test. I would not turn off your processor until this step is successful

So you don't wash before you do the 3/27 tests

You guys a awesome I sure appreciate the help.

I loaded 20 gallons of WVO into my processor last night Im going to try and process it tonight.

Chad...

That's part of the point of pretreating with your previous glycerin; to lower the titration value. So, titrate after the treating and draining.

quote:

So you don't wash before you do the 3/27 tests

Correct...no washing before 3/27. Only the WVO isn't soluble in methanol and will fall out if present.

Remember...do the 3/27 before turning off your processor. If a "pass", then take a sample in a jar to observe separation, turn off the processor and allow several hours to complete separation (most do overnight I believe).

Good luck,

Jim...

WARNING: If you are using NaOH DO NOT let it settle overnight, UNLESS you do a prewash! Without the added water in the prewash, the glycerin will harden in the bottom of your tank.

I have done over a dozen batches and have NEVER made biodiesel that will pass the 3/27 test, UNLESS, I do the base/base process. This was with unused VO too.

I have only had the NaOH glycerin thicken/harden when left out in the open. If it was in an enclosed jug/jar/tank it never hardened.

We'll I made my first 20 gallon batch last night. ran the processor for 3 hrs. Drained a little off and have really good seperation. I turned it off before the 3/27. I will try and do that tonight after I drain off the glycerin. I hope this works.

Washing question:
I built the washer off utah Bio supply. So I put my unwashed fuel in the tank heat it up and then do a mist wash correct? How many times do I mist wash before I run the bubbler. Then when I start to tun the bubbler to I put the water in the tank with the misters or do I do it some other way? How much water do you use until you stop and change the water?

Thanks Again for everyones help

Chad,

Congrats on your first batch....nothin' to it, eh?!?!

quote:

WARNING: If you are using NaOH DO NOT let it settle overnight, UNLESS you do a prewash! Without the added water in the prewash, the glycerin will harden in the bottom of your tank.

Just a quick comment on the above quote. It depends on how hydrogenated your feed stock is whether it will gel up (or harden) and how quickly when using NaOH. I only use NaOH (cheaper and easier to use IMO) and I've used some feed stock that was close to "lard" at room temperature and have had some trouble letting it set too long. On the other hand, regular cooking/deep frying oils give me no problem and in fact are still liquid after several days. That's why it's important to take a sample to observe when shutting down the processor. So, KOH is probably the easiest out if you have geling problems, but shorter settling times and minimizing the loss of heat will also help to remedy the problem.

quote:

Without the added water in the prewash, the glycerin will harden in the bottom of your tank.

Adding water will ruin your glycerin for the next batch. You can't put it in your WVO with water in it (unless you're interested in creating a soap factory).

quote:

So I put my unwashed fuel in the tank heat it up and then do a mist wash correct? How many times do I mist wash before I run the bubbler. Then when I start to tun the bubbler to I put the water in the tank with the misters or do I do it some other way?

Heat may help, although I don't heat mine and it works fine. I mist wash for the first wash as this is the one that your methanol drops out in and poses your greatest risk for an emulsion. The FFAs/soaps will begin to drop as soon as the methanol depletes.

I then begin bubble washing and usually have to do 3 bubble washes to be sure and the BD will be nearly clear at the end of the 3rd bubble wash.

I use about 25% of the BD volume for each wash. So, in the end, I've used about the same volume of water as I've made in BD. Here are my final steps.

1st wash, mist-until ~25% of volume, let settle for 2 hours, drain.
2nd wash, hot water ~25% of volume, bubble for 2 hours, let settle for 2 hours, drain.
3rd wash, ditto as #2, bubble for 4-6 hours, settle for 1-2, drain.
4th wash, ditto, bubble for 6-8 hours and raise bubbling ring into BD layer. Turn on fan and run until crystal clear, 2-4 hours.
Take a small sample and do the "shake-em" test. If water remains crystal clear, continue on to any final filtering.
(NOTE: My wash/dry tank has a 8" standpipe in the bottom, so I don't drain my last wash, but do make sure that the water level is at least 1" or more below the top of the stand pipe. I drain this water after the BD has been removed)



Good luck,

Jim...

So after your 4th wash and you drain the BD. It can be put in my fuel tank and burned?

Chad,

It should be ready to go if it passes the "shake-em up" test. I.e., the water is crystal clear. This indicates a thorough wash.
(The BD will probably cloud up again, but it will clear if left exposed to air)

I still pass mine through a homemade Purolite filter (3 liters/hour) for a final polishing. It just makes me feel better!!!!

Jim...

Like Chad I am at the jump off point. I too just finished my appleseed processor. My question is to Jimmy K; the bubbler, is that to wash or to dry. I have read plenty of information on info pop and other sites stating to use water to wash as long as you do a drying phase after. A bubbler was used to dry the BD prior to filtering and adding to your fuel tank. Is that what the perolite does?

nickinaz...

quote:

the bubbler, is that to wash or to dry

I use the bubbler to do both. During my normal 3 bubble washes, the bubbler (1/4" copper ring with holes) sets in the water layer at the bottom of the wash/dry tank. After the fuel has cleared up at the end of my 3rd wash and the water is relatively clear, I raise my bubbler ring into the BD layer, turn on a fan that blows into the top of the barrel, and dry my fuel. It will become very, very clear during this step.

The Purolite is an ionizing resin used to scrub contaminants out of the BD. It may be an unnecessary step most of the time (after water washing), but as a final polisher for the fuel, I'm sure it helps to meet/exceed the ASTM standard. The posted literature on this product indicates that it will remove remaining soap, methanol, and water. It's just one more assurance for me and it's basically a no-work step. Mine drains through the filter from an overhead gravity tank.

Good luck,

Jim...

Incorrectly posted. Sorry.