I know I've seen this discussed somewhere but I cannot find it. I made a 40 gal batch, checked it the next morning and it had not separated. It looked like good bio but it was syrupy. I admit I got lazy and did not test it. The oil had been settling for over a year under a tarp in the shade. I mixed 500 grams lye with 5 gals methanol. Once i realized it had not separated I added 4 gals methanol more to no avail. Help!

quote:

I admit I got lazy and did not test it.

I guess you were right there.
If your oil titrated at say 2 gpl, you would have needed 8.8 gallons of methanol and 1514 grams of lye, to get good conversion.
As long as the processor is sealed, your methanol is still there, but you will need to add 1014 grams of lye (IF THE TITRATION WAS 2, you need to test a sample of the original oil to find out).
You will need to mix the correct amount of lye into a couple or 3 gallons of methanol, and add it. If you would have done that this morning, you would not have wasted the additional methanol.
Here is a calculator to use.
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/recipecalculator/
Good luck
Jammer

Thanks Jammer, I'll try that.

Slam, I was going to edit the last post,
I was assuming you are using KOH lye, The #'s are correct for that. If you are using Naoh, you should use 5 gpl base + titration and Koh will be 7 gpl and adjusted for purity. Also be careful putting too much lye into too little methanol, it will heat and could melt the container, or build a lot of pressure and blow the lid off.
Safety first....
Jammer

you could do a 27/3 test on the bio/oil in a measured tube when it settles u could get a good idea of how much has converted.you can then make a good estmate to how much NaOH and Methanol u gonna need.
and check there is no glycerol in the batch before you start a new reaction ive found it can kill the NaOH so you get a smaller reaction.

hope it helps.
plugly

quote:

check there is no glycerol in the batch before you start a new reaction ive found it can kill the NaOH so you get a smaller reaction

This could be. It seems I noticed a couple of slugs of black cycling through this new batch but I didn't think it to be enough to matter.

I have a doubt about the comments of this situation, I have the same problem with my bio, recently I made a 21 gals of syrup, I do everything as always, I use 22% of methanol (17.5 Lts, accurately measure), and a total of 6.3 g/Lts of Lye (caustic soda, 17.7 Oz). I thought I read before that to correct this syrupy biodiesel you need to add more methoxide but at different (lower) percents..., I have all my biodiesel resting in my tank waiting for a good solution. Thanks Luis.

Hi Luisboost, If you process 40 gallons of oil with 4 gallons of methanol and 500 grams of NaOh, you are short 559 grams of lye ( if it titrates at 2) and 4.8 gallons short on methanol. You will not get much of a reaction.
That would account for the syrup.
If however you add the correct amount of methoxide the reaction should take place.
Read the above post's and it may make sense.
This may be what you are thinking about.
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/435107459
Jammer

Hi Jammer, I guess I use the conversion right, that is, 21 Gals of oil with 4.6 Gals (17.5 Lts) of methanol with 500 grams of NaOH (6.3 g/Lts. If I understand, Do I need to use "1g NaOH mixed in 50ml methanol per litre Biodiesel re-reacted" to eliminate the syrup??? I'am eliminating right now +/- 5 Gals in the valve of the tanks to eliminate the glycerin, tell me if I'm walking right in the process. Thanks Luis.

Hello Slam

The Biodiesel world developed around metric measure.
You really need to not mix metric measure with US customary or UK Imperial. They are all different units of measure that require continually refering to conversion websites to try to understand what you are saying.
So I did not.

However, If I read your problem correctly you did not achieve seperation but have a syrup and not a glop.

Did you use NaOH or KOH in the reaction?

NaOH, right now I introduce 2.4 of Methoxide, that was prepared using 2.4 Lts of methanol with 2 Oz of NaOH, with this additive, supposed I didn't mix anything yet, I would have in theory 25% of methanol with 7 G/L of caustic soda, right now I'm mixing this in the tank, visually I still see the syrup.
Thanks for any help

Luis

Hello Luis

You are the first person I can recall to discuss mixing litres of methanol with Oz of NaOH.
How many grams is 2 Oz NaOH

Sorry for the metric, I'm using the recipe calculator, I meant 55.6 grams/L additional with 2.4 Lts, that means that if I were to start mixing my 21 gals of oil, with this additional added methoxide, I would have 25% methanol with 7 g/Lts of NaOH. But again visually I didn't see any changes in the syrup. Still mixing it in the tank, already 100F of temperature.

Right now it start to see more "liquified". I'n gonna give 30 more minutes to the mixing. (My first mixing in the tank yesterday was 2 hours, with starting temp of 122F). Today I remove already 5 Gals of glycerin maybe mixing with methanol, to be sure that glycerin isn't in the process right now, yesterday I start the mix with 4.6 Gals.
Again thanks for your help. Did I'm doing logic reparations??.

Well, I stop the mixing machine and the mix looks great, no syrup right now, tomorrow we tell, after the night rest. Also I don't see any emulsions.
Luis.

I am pretty sure that 2 imperial Ounces = 56.4 grams.
I have to agree with Tilly here, all the various methods of measuring are confusing. The funny thing is I learnt imperial at school. But Oz went Metric in the 60's so I use meters grams litre/liters etc but am still stuck on thous of inch foot/lbs and psi.