Ok , I am making a batch today and want to try this , after the glycerine prewah . Do I need to dry the fuel before adding the magnesol , or will it still work ? Any ideas on this are appreciated .
Thanks ,
Shannon

Also , if I can use the magnesol before drying , do I still need to dry or does it remove the water ?
Thanks ,
Shannon

Dodgerman,
As long as the meth is out (bubble/heat/vac/pump/juggle, or whatever) you're good. If you choose to prewash I would guess you need to get rid of the water by heat/agitation/vacuum/bubble/pump/juggle.... before you add the Mag. What I'm suggesting is that you do what The Diff wrote at the beginning of the thread. That would mean there is no need to prewash. There is no need to wash. There is no need to introduce H2O. That is why he titled the thread "waterless" washing ( I call it "dry washing" pat.pend.) In fact, do everything you can to keep water out. Now filtering the Mag out is another issue.

Cheers from soyland,

Nuculer

I use a 1 micron filter on all of my fuel , is this good enough ? I have already done the prewash on this batch , so I will dewater prior to using the magnesol . any other suggetsions before I jump in with both feet ?
Thanks ,
Shannon

dodgeram:
For me the jury is out on whether a 1 micron filter works on Magnesol. In my opinion it appears to work. However, I guess a microscope would be needed to determine for sure. On some small test batches, I simply gravity filtered through a coffee filter and the BD was crystal clear. I think time and gravity also help. I am a week away (still) from getting my larger set up on-line, so please let me know how your experiment works out. Nuculer

dodgeram

With your 1 micron filter, use some diatomaceous earth to filter the Magnesol out of the bd.

OK, one more time for the slow people like me:

Process as normal
Drain glyc
Remove methanol
Add Magnesol
Settle
Filter out Magnesol

If the methanol isn't completely removed, what happens?
If the Magnesol isn't completely filtered out, what happens?

Also, the WVO I get is usually pretty wet. I don't fully understand what impact that will have on using Magnesol. Anyone?

Thanks

In my meager experience, Magnesol didn't really work (in othe words, adding water and shaking the Bd with meth turns the BD into a soapy emulsion) as long as I could smell meth in the BD. But please don't ask me why meth inhibits the efficacy of Mag because I have no idea. Prof Briggs? As for water, I don't have an opinion yet.

I used magnesol on a 1 liter batch yesterday. I used 2% magnesol by weight. I used 2 coffee filters as my sock filters have not arrived yet.

The BD came out bright, clear and passed idaho test with flying colors. I shook the water and BD pretty violently, but it all fell out quickly with no degration to clarity. As compared to the time, and amount of water used to wash a 1 liter batch, I think the $ is worth it.

What I have been doing is removing the methanol , adding the magnesol , mixing with the pump , and then allowing the magnesol a few hours to do it's thing . After 3 or 4 hours I filter the magnesol back out by running the fuel out through the filter and back to the tank in a cycle . I let it run at a rate of about 1 gallon a min like this for an hour or two . While filtering the fuel in recirculation for awhile the filter cakes up with the magnesol and the flow rate drops down to about half . I then take a sample and do the shake test . The I open the valve and pump into storage tanks at a rate of about 1/2 gallon per min. The pump will move the fuel through at a much faster rate than this , but I leave the valve returning to the tank open slightly to keep it from building enough pressure to push the magnesol through the filter .

I am amazed at the endless discussions about 300 gallon water washing (static bubble mist...) of 50 gallons of BD taking 2 weeks to complete. Emulsions, 10% glyc, pre-wash, bubble drying etc. etc. I just don't get it. I'm not trying to start anything, but I just don't get it. Nuculer

quote:

Originally posted by Nuculer:
I am amazed at the endless discussions about 300 gallon water washing (static bubble mist...) of 50 gallons of BD taking 2 weeks to complete. Emulsions, 10% glyc, pre-wash, bubble drying etc. etc. I just don't get it. I'm not trying to start anything, but I just don't get it. Nuculer

I guess I don't get what your getting at LOL. I have learned so much about BioDiesel that I never knew or even heard about 3-4 months ago, now I'm running my truck on it. There are many many ways to do washes, I am willing to try just about anything once (on my wash) LOL. I love to try new and different techniques on processing and washing/drying etc. If noone put forward any suggestions I would still be buying Dino @ $2.88
a gallon here.

I appreciate all the help & support here (GM, Tilly, you, Dodgeram and a slew of others.)

Ian

Ian ,
What he is refering to is the idea that you can wash your fuel in alot less time and with no drying at all with the magnesium silicate . This meathod adds a very small amount to the cost of your production , but is a huge time saver . Not to mention the fact that it uses no water . I have been using it with good results , but will reserve my official approval of it until I change my fuel filter and see if I am actually getting all of the particles out with filtering . I am at this point very impressed with the idea none the less . If I find that filtering is not enough I will probably try just one wash to remove the magnesium silicate remaining in the fuel . If done properly it leaves the fuel clean and soap free , and makes clean water with a shake test . I am sure that with the rising fuel costs there will begin to be great advancments in the production of biodiesel , and think that this may be one of them . Imagine 20 years from now your grandkids telling you they just can't believe that you used to take an entire two days to produce fuel ? Kinda like that in my mind . If there is in fact better technology , I want to be openminded enough to be able to benefit from it . That is what he is refering to I think .

Diff, thanks for the most imteresting info. I checked Dallas Group website but could only find "Magnesol XL" (with no reference to R60). Is it the same product?

Please keep us updated on any further findings.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fryer-Powder-Magnesol-8-Oz-280-1350...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is what I have been using , if you order it from thier web site it is a better deal than on ebay .
Good Luck and keep us posted ,
Shannon

Dodgeram:

They charge $1.39 for 8 oz Magnesol which translates into about 11 cents per liter (@ 2%) if I calculate correctly. That would raise my total BD production cost by about 50%. There must be better deals with larger purchase quantities I would hope. I'll call some restaurant supplers tomorrow to see what is available.

One other thought - does anyone have any idea how abrasive magnesium silicate is? I view this as a potential deal breaker as it may not be practical to get it all out of the finished product.

Oops! Talc, not DE.

Having just made my first test batch yesterday and my first try at washing today I am glad to see this info. My reaction to the BD production process was "Man that seemed straight forward!" My reaction to the washing was "Man there has to be a better way to do this!"
I'll have to do some testing myself but it seems like this is how it will go:
-Collect WVO
-Stage filter down 200/100/50/20/10/5 microns
-Heat and circulate to remove water
-Titrate
-Make BD the regular old way
-Drain off Glyc
-Recover Meth from BD
-Store Glyc until I have enough to recover Meth
-Add Magnesol & pump circulate
-Let it settle in a conical tank (an hour or two)
-Drain off what has settled
-Transfer biodiesel to a standpipe tank (with a temporary cap over the standpipe opening) or a conical tank
-Pull a sample, add water, and give it hell, for QA of course!
-Let it settle there for as long as REASONABLY possible
-Remove cap from standpipe and pump out through a series of filters 5/1/?maybe

Seems a lot easier than the washing I was doing.

My only question is what do you do with the leftover solids? At some point it is an issue that will have to be dealt with. Since the Meth is already gone at this point, would it be a good addition to a bar of soap? Graydon makes and sells the stuff. I wonder what he would think of it? The idea of washing it seems counter productive. You would get the Magnesol back, but would create a bunch of soapy caustic water.
Eager plastics says that their product, Nytal 400, "In the animal feed industry, talc serves as an anti-caking coating in feed bins and on the food. Because it is non-toxic, the talc is inert when ingested, and thus will not harm livestock." Among other things.
(http://www.eagerplastics.com/nytal400.htm)

-Jim

If we are able to use the low cost Nytal 100HB (used in pottery) you are looking at less than $10 for a 50 pound bag + shipping. For me that is about $35 total. If you really can use just 1/16 of an oz per gallon then:
50 pounds * 16oz/pound * 16 gallons/oz = 12,800 gallons treated.
That is .27 cents per gallon.
That is about four gallons per penny.

The only other Nytal that I have a price on is the Nytal 400 (not the best choice for BD). It is $35 for 50 pounds + shipping. So about $70 for me.
That is .54 cents per gallon.
That is about two gallons per penny.

I sure would like to see that kind of pricing.

I've contacted for samples, prices, and more information.

-Jim

Perhaps my last comment was a little rash. But for me, when I first heard from The Diff about MagSil I was absolutely inspired by the idea of not using all that water, plus the drying. So I eventually invested in a good filtering system that should be pulling all the MagSil out. (I'm thinking about buying a good microscope to check out the end product.) And my experience shows that it is very economical. Nuculer