What a great topic for a newbie! Is this the solution to my massive emulsion problem? Is using diatomacious earth pretty much the same as using magnesol? Does the methanol have to be gone from the BD for this to work effectively? Sorry if questions seem dense, I'm trying to learn as quickly as possible! Thanks.

My, You guys are Brave, I take my hat off to you!

There is NO WAY ON EARTH, I would use Magnasol cleaned fuel in my vehicle, or supply such fuel to any of my customers!

The stuff is highly abrasive, and contains a LOT of Sub-Micron particles which would pass most commercial 1 mic filters, and sail through a Vehicle filter, How can you be COMPLETELY sure you got it ALL out?? Only a Laboratory analysis would tell you that.....

OK, It does a Brill job of soap/glyc/meth removal, but at What long-term cost?

Be better to do the Air-dry-BioDiesel, Settle and skim process, At least then you aint got 'sand' in your fuel!--Much cheaper too!

quote:

Originally posted by High Compression II:
My, You guys are Brave, I take my hat off to you!

There is NO WAY ON EARTH, I would use Magnasol cleaned fuel in my vehicle, or supply such fuel to any of my customers!

The stuff is highly abrasive, and contains a LOT of Sub-Micron particles which would pass most commercial 1 mic filters, and sail through a Vehicle filter, How can you be COMPLETELY sure you got it ALL out?? Only a Laboratory analysis would tell you that.....

OK, It does a Brill job of soap/glyc/meth removal, but at What long-term cost?

Be better to do the Air-dry-BioDiesel, Settle and skim process, At least then you aint got 'sand' in your fuel!--Much cheaper too!

All fuel carries some amount of abrasive, no? Is it not logical to assume that if it's too small for the fuel filter to catch it, then it's not a problem? Better yet, aren't there standards from engine manufacturers out there that tell you what size of particulate is acceptable in fuel?

Also, isn't the bigger problem, as far as injector and fuel pump life are concerned, h2o contamination?

I've been reading posts about magnesol on several sites. Are you aware that this stuff is sold by Rest. supply co.s? So this stuff could be present in alot of wvo, so has the wvo been tested for magnesol? Does it settle out not to be a problem when removing oil from a suppliers container? I've read the D60 is larger particles(easier to filter)I really don't want to put water in fuel. I 've replaced a inj. pump on a tractor because some water got passed the filter(I was running the engine full throttle) and seized the head in the pump.

quote:

There is NO WAY ON EARTH, I would use Magnasol cleaned fuel in my vehicle, or supply such fuel to any of my customers!

The stuff is highly abrasive, and contains a LOT of Sub-Micron particles which would pass most commercial 1 mic filters, and sail through a Vehicle filter, How can you be COMPLETELY sure you got it ALL out?? Only a Laboratory analysis would tell you that.....

HC II, I completely agree with your concerns. That is why I have been trying to keep everyone apprised of my efforts to filter out every particle of mag in the fuel. I know we're up to thirty pages on this thread but just go back a few pages to read about my particle counting efforts under the microscope. I was trying to give a certain amount of confidence to those without access to a hemacytometer and a scope.

If you do go back a few pages you will see there are particles of all sorts in dino commercial fuel but my homebrew magwash is now returning zero particle counts under the microscope.

And you are doing what with your waste water again?? Yeah, I know everyone says "it's just soapy water", but have you ever checked the pH of that stuff?

Cheers,
Chris E.

Hey Aztec, DE does not have the same adsorbing qualities as Magnesol. It is a filter aid that is used in food and pharm. processing (swimming pools?) which can be used in sock filters, plate and frame filters or pressure leaf filters. For mag use, DE builds up a filter cake in recirc that catches more particles than one simple pass through a single filter element would do.

I have NOT been using it in my system (I do use it at work: brewing beer) as it would require more clean up afterwards and as I've stated many times now, I feel I am getting super clean fuel without the filtering "assist" that DE would give.

Chris E.

quote:

All fuel carries some amount of abrasive, no? Is it not logical to assume that if it's too small for the fuel filter to catch it, then it's not a problem? Better yet, aren't there standards from engine manufacturers out there that tell you what size of particulate is acceptable in fuel?

Nice idea, but I don't buy it. Knowingly leaving particles from 1 micron to 10-15 microns in size in your fuel is a bad idea. Recircing through a 1 micron filter and then filtering through a 99.5% effecient filter at 1 micron is a much better way to go. Get out absolutely everything you can. That 99.5% efficient at one micron filter gets out sub micron particles also, just not at 99.5%.

Someone else brought up the point of magnesol in the WVO at pickup. I am very concerned about that in my grease car setup. I have been using magnesol on my biodiesel and filtering to 1 micron absolute. I have only been filtering through the 1 micron sock/bag filter for my WVO. At present it is not a problem because none of my suppliers treat their fryer oil with Magnesol XL.

-Jim

Hi guys

Have you given this method a try?

No water, no magnesol, no DE.

I've run 4 batches with this method now and I am really happy with it - I'll never use water again.

I'd be interested to hear what you think.

Regards,

Hi folks, seeing as this is a post on waterless soap removal could I ask you to check out "GL'S one day process" as posted above. I tried a few batches this way and seem to have an end product at least as good as the product I got when water washing. In addition you can recapture a bit of methanol too! I would really like to hear from some others on their thoughts on this process. Thanks Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Erickson:

quote:

There is NO WAY ON EARTH, I would use Magnasol cleaned fuel in my vehicle, or supply such fuel to any of my customers!

The stuff is highly abrasive, and contains a LOT of Sub-Micron particles which would pass most commercial 1 mic filters, and sail through a Vehicle filter, How can you be COMPLETELY sure you got it ALL out?? Only a Laboratory analysis would tell you that.....

HC II, I completely agree with your concerns. That is why I have been trying to keep everyone apprised of my efforts to filter out every particle of mag in the fuel. I know we're up to thirty pages on this thread but just go back a few pages to read about my particle counting efforts under the microscope. I was trying to give a certain amount of confidence to those without access to a hemacytometer and a scope.

If you do go back a few pages you will see there are particles of all sorts in dino commercial fuel but my homebrew magwash is now returning zero particle counts under the microscope.

And you are doing what with your waste water again?? Yeah, I know everyone says "it's just soapy water", but have you ever checked the pH of that stuff?

Cheers,
Chris E.

Glad you have similar concerns, and have methods to deal with it, and ways of confirming clean end-product.....

But--What do you do with the 'spent' Mag. product when youve finished with it--All sludgy and contaminated with meth/glyc/soap and BioDiesel...
Cant compost it, what else but turf it out in the trash... Not very 'renewable' that part is it....?
At least the PH situation of Wash-Water can be addressed very easily if its an issue to your water-companies or for other reasons.....

HC II, you are right: none of what we are doing can be impact free. The MSDS for magnesol says it can indeed be placed in the land fill. That may be for food use but they are now marketing it for biodiesel use so I'm not sure about that one.

For each 180 liter batch I've been doing I get a clump about the size of my head (Hell, I've eaten bigger burritos than that!) It is less than half of a small kitchen sized trash bag at most.

I also have to tell you a big motivation for me are the -25* Farenheit temps we can get here in the winter. Our shed is unheated and any settling wash water would just freeze in the bottom of my wash tank. Magnesol has solved the winter processing for me. (and yes, I ran B25 for a two week cold snap last year with the D75 portion heavily winterized)(My B100 still flows to about 18*F)

It is interesting to see the different avenues we are all taking to get to the same goal of high quality fuel!

Chris E.

Check out the GL method and then please comment... This thread like so many others has a multitude of ideas represented However, it seems like we are trying to create a situation where we are:

• looking for the most efficient way to reduce processing time
  
• trying to use as little energy as possible
  
• trying not to harm the environment

With that said, it occurs to me that the 5% prewash has the most potential for improving the process. (MHO) It seems to me that each part of the process reccomended for removing methanol in some way conflicts with best practices in other areas. Air bubbling for washing or drying, Oxidizes fuel and consumes electricity. Water washing problems so numerous and obvious there's no need to address it. Heating BD a) more wasted energy and still not feeling great about having a 2000w H2O element in my new conical tank. b) not wild about the damamge that can be done when you forget to turn off the element and drain unwashed BD out of your reactor (It's embarassing to admit, but the explosion happened so fast that if I didn't have an accidentally engineered fail-safe on top of my original carwash barrel reactor...)

So, where is the tip over point? I'm really interested in recovering methanol, but we should only have to heat the full mixture in this process once (Again, in MHO). I have many questions so if you have a moment I would appreciate everybody's input.

• If a 5% prewash removes X% of methanol how much will a 10% prewash add?
• Does it make sense to add heated water for the prewash? Will that help get rid of more Methanol is some way? More ends up in your glycerol? Is that ok?
• What if we utilize the 5% or 10% prewash with spray circulation after draining the BD? Does that remove enough Methanol?
• Is there a reason to remove all of the Methanol before using Magnesol?

Sorry if this rambles, but this process seems really close to being the best yet. I'd love to see it through. I'm still convinced that Magnesol is a good way to go, especially if you can use less with a prewash and get rid of the methanol responsibly.

If the manufacturer is satisfied with the micron rating I'm not concerned about it. They are always in CYA mode so you know they're over-compensating. If you're deeply troubled with using Magnesol, here's a filter you may want to consider adding to your system, your vehicle or both...

Filter Head 1-14 Filter Head (Napa $35)
FYI the filter head is part number FIL4770 at Napa. Wix is a 24770.

Filter: Baldwin BF7587, 1-2 Micron (or any equiv to Cat 1R-0749)

Baldwin actually calls it a 1 micron filter, I've heard that's not exactly true. It is basically the Baldwin equivalent to the Cat 1R-0749 which is a 2 micron.

Until I see the B ratings on them I can't compare them. I know that the 1 micron filters that I sell are bx=200 rated at <1 micron using the old ISO 4572 rating system. They are bx(c)=1000 rated at 2.5 microns using the new ISO 16889 rating system. Unless I know how they are testing and rating their filters, I cannot compare them.
-Jim

quote:

Check out the GL method and then please comment...

Whew, that has my head spinning right now. Well I know in my situation all the methanol is not removed, only what has evap-ed off the top surface (yes, pollutant). And if I'm I not mistaken the mag removes methanol just like the other impurities it adsorbs. So the really minimal amounts people like Burlington and others are using is probably a reflection of good methanol removal/recovery (which, as we now know, will reduce soap in and of itself...)

I remember the first time I read fryer to fuel tank - things were so much simpler then...

Or would that be "ignorance is bliss"???

Chris E.

I realize I have been "lurking" while on vacation. The direction of this thread has caught my attention, though.

I don't think that BD treated with Magnesol is a big deal if it has been filtered to 1u tolerance. I can say that sloppy filtering of the "magic dust" will clog a fuel filter in very little time.

However, Graham pretty well has his finger on the pulse of commercial BD production. Fractional distillaton seems wasteful if one only considers the final product. However, a well designed column can and will serve several muses: meth reclamation, BD purification, water removal to a higher degree of accuracy adn even the purification of glycerol into a saleable product.

The one good thing a person can say about the big oil industry is that they have mastered the art of using and marketing every level of distillate from crude oil. Thus, the adoption of the "BD Cracker" makes perfect sense for anyone producing any significant volume of product.

Kind of funny how these fuel technologies parallel each other. . .

I think many of you already knew this but, after about 7-8 months of use my clear bowl household water filters are starting to crack.

This is the one NOT to use: http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=...ily&searchId=1260951

Just get the solid blue ones instead, they seem fine.

I had read about this before but just thought it was so cool to have the see through bowl, oh well...

Chris E.

This thread on Magnesol began some 4 months ago and has covered 30 pages. The exchanges have been great. Now for the question - are the early users of Magnesol still happy, are they still using it, and have they learned anything since their last posts?

I'm looking to use it as a final step but want any updated info before I put the pieces together. TIA

Lately I have not been using Magnesol because it is such a pain in the ass to filter out. I also don't use water because I doubt that all the water actually can be be removed. I may try Magnesol again though. Who knows?

I still use it, but I'm the guy selling it so don't trust me.

I do a single pass through a pair of 50 micron sock filters hung in a barrel. When they start to get clogged it is a bit of a pain. It takes a while to drain down. After that I recirculate through a sock/bag filter housing with a 1 micron sock filter in it. That housing has really cut down on the PITA factor. They are like $600 new from www.mcmaster.com. I got mine off of ebay for $50 including shipping!!! Recirculating with that does a good job of getting out a bunch of the small stuff. Then I run it through a 1 micron absolute (99.5%) filter for the final pass. Works great for me. I hate water washing.

-Jim