Thanks Chris,
Can't wait to see the pics! I've got a good idea how you are setup. Those sound like great filter too, especially designed for BioD. I was considering DE, but it just sounds like to much of a mess to deal with.

Here is the link for the Dalsorb I mentioned
Click on the "Industrial" tab at the top of the page http://www.dallasgrp.com/

Thanks again

Okay, I see, the dalsorb would be for pre-treating the oil? Our oil titrates at 0.5 to 1.5 max. typically so I feel pretty fortunate there.

Yeah, it's funny because I filter beer at work with DE. But that is in a cleanable pressure leaf tank. Our DE grade is about 3 microns, trying to filter out yeast cells which average about 5 microns or greater. I never wanted to use any DE for biodiesel. I just figure in the type of cartridges I'm using it would simply clog sooner. I can see where it might be an advantage in building a cake on a sock filter. But it just seems to add complexity, no?

Chris E.

Okay, My first ever picture posting so hope it works. My album is here:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=albumtopic&TOP...71011841&f=719605551

Tell me if there's another/better way to post 'em!

Chris E.

Well I see the captions are limited on text. Okay Webheads, if I reduce the pic size does it leave more room for caption or is that set?

Anyway, I think you will all get the gist and if you have any questions just fire away...

CE

I do better with a worksheet since I’m not so great at math. Here’s what I came up with during a magwash I did tonight. First get the result of your soap titration:

__________ X 304.4 = ____________
ml of HCl / soap ppm

This comes from Jim at Fryerpower’s streamlined soap titration here: http://www.fryerpower.com/store/page2.html It has to be done Jim’s way for all this to work. ( and Jim I loved doing it your way on the scale and everything – great!)

Since the magnesol is dosed by a percentage of the weight of the biodiesel and because the scale I will weigh the mag with measures in grams, I also need this equation:

_____________ X 900 = ____________
Liters of biodiesel / (SG X 1000) / weight in grams of biodiesel

(The 900 represents the approx. SG of the biodiesel. One might like to use 880 or the actual measured SG. Using 900 instead of 0.900 converts the liters directly to grams)

Now plug in to this to determine amount of D60 magnesol to use:

( ________ X 0.00001) X _____________ = _____________
soap ppm / weight in grams BD / Dose of Magnesol D60 in grams

That would be for the more efficient D60. If using the R60 grade change the factor in the final equation to 0.000012.

Does that look right to everybody? I used it tonight and it gave a result I expected like so:

4 X 304.4 = 1217.6 ppm soap

170 X 900 = 153000 grams of BD

( 1217.6 X 0.00001) X 153000 = 1862.9 grams of Magnesol D60

To me that seemed like an amount I have used before on a 170 liter batch.

As I said I need a little help with math to make sure I don’t mess up. Think I did it right??

Chris E.

Looks like we are all playing in the same ballpark. I did quick math using basic (not very accurate) conversions and came up with about 2000grams. That is in the same ballpark as your >1800grams.

-Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Jim D:
Here is what I just got from the Dallas Group.

It is a minimum of 20% more effective and is 11% more expenseive, so the overall cost is lower.

This has two implications for us.
1- 20% more effective at 11% more cost, duh

2- since shipping cost is a big part of this being cost effective, anything that makes it pound for pound more effective also lowers the associated shipping cost.

They have switched to a 45 pound bag so it works out to the same price for a 45 pound bag of D60 as it is for a 50 pound bag of R60.

Since each bag is 45 pounds instead of 50 pounds, but it is 20% more effective you end up with:
(45/50)*1.2= 1.08
8% more soap removed for the same price. Plus you only have to ship 45 pounds plus packaging instead of 50 pounds plus packaging.

I should be ordering and selling soon.

-Jim

So has anyone figured how much it cost to use to use magwash?
Roger

Yo, Rock I replied over here: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/albumcomments/...9605551/m/2871011841 with this:

quote:

the cost will depend on the amount of soap in your reaction and the shipping cost to your address.

I'm in Bumf#%@ Idaho, so shipping here is expensive. I do believe Jim at Fryerpower is operating more as a public service than as an aggressive capitalistic endeavor. (thanks Jim)

Anyway the last batch I treated added about .23 a gallon.

Is it worth it? I say absolutely! No water use or disposal to worry about. Easier, more consistent process and result. And I can do it in the winter in our unheated shed.

What it came down to for me was my ability to view the fuel under the microscope and gain confidence that my filters are doing their job. Without that I'd be up at night wondering how much grit is going in the motor...

Chris E.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Erickson:
Yo, Rock I replied over here: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/albumcomments/...9605551/m/2871011841 with this:

quote:

the cost will depend on the amount of soap in your reaction and the shipping cost to your address.

I'm in Bumf#%@ Idaho, so shipping here is expensive. I do believe Jim at Fryerpower is operating more as a public service than as an aggressive capitalistic endeavor. (thanks Jim)

Anyway the last batch I treated added about .23 a gallon.

Is it worth it? I say absolutely! No water use or disposal to worry about. Easier, more consistent process and result. And I can do it in the winter in our unheated shed.

What it came down to for me was my ability to view the fuel under the microscope and gain confidence that my filters are doing their job. Without that I'd be up at night wondering how much grit is going in the motor...

Chris E.

Thanks Chris

I could never "refind" where I had ask before.

Oh yeah, I use that "notify" tab with the little flag on top of the page to keep track of threads I'm interested in...

Chris E.

About the 60 gal conical bottom mix tank that most seem to be using: Would the US Plastic #8564 be satisfactory? This is medium density polythelene but only good for max temp of 140 deg F.

Glenn
glenne1949@aol.com

I don't go above 130 when I process or when I treat with magnesol. It would work fine as long as you keep that limit in mind and don't heat directly in the tank.

Mount the pump above the bottom of the tank. Magnesol has a habit of dropping out and collecting in the low spots. It moves just fine once you get it started, but can be sludge like when it has been sitting for a while.

-Jim

Jim and all,

Thanks. Have a source of peanut oil and am starting to put together a Frybrid system.

Glenn

I may have missed this in this 29 page thread, but has anyone determined the impact of the remaining methanol in the BD on the amount of magsil needed?

Does the methanol render the magsil ineffective, or less effective. If LESS effective, any idea to what extent?

Magnesol hooks onto anything polar - this includes water, glycerol and methanol

But has anyone determined how much magnesol picks up how much of each of these, and in what preference (if any)?

Probably the more polar material goes 1st. But ultimately all compound will adsorb until the magnesol is saturated. I would gues that the is a much greater affininty for water to adsorb than methanol. There is a stronger bond between the water and the adsorbent than that of methanol. In my opinion, for what it's worth, you are wasting the magnesol is you are using to remove methanol and/or water. Clean glycerol splits are important in this regard as well. I flash off and condense the methanol and then add hot water from a shower head and hold the tank for 2-hr at 60C and then split off the water, flash the residual water off followed by magnesol treatment. The static wash reduces the metalic soaps enough the use <<1% Magnesol by weight. The entire wash cycle takes < 6h.

Howdy Fox, I'm wondering, did you ever use magnesol alone in an effort to avoid any water use at all?

What factors led you to this technique? Convenience, economy, other?

How's your distillation work? Any pics?

Thanks,

Chris E.

Did another spot check on a new batch of fuel with a zero particle count at the final point of dispense to the car. I'm quite confident now that all the mag is being removed prior to using the fuel.

All this is being done with my previously described hardware store cartridge filters and a final Cimtek, biotek 1 micron filter at dispense.

Chris E.

Now you know it is independant. Chris isn't even using the filter that I sell!

-Jim