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Member |
Newbie here - I'm still getting setup. Actually pretty much finished the plumbing of the water heater and need to do the wiring and setup the wash tank.
I'm very interested in this alternate wash option. I work in the restaurant supply business - contract equipment sales and restaurant design. We sell a similar product in our showrooms - Frypowder by Miroil. http://www.acemart.com/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MIRL112 (BTW: the weight on our website is incorrect. I picked up a box the other day, our bathroom scale shows the bag without the box at 7 lbs.) I called the factory to inquire about the micron rating - stumped the customer service rep.  Was directed up the command chain to a Bernie Friedman. He began the sales pitch and I then told him this was not for using in fryers and he immediately surmised "biodiesel". Had a very good talk. He obviously thinks their product is better than Magnesol, go figure. His opinion is that Magnesol actually increases soap formation in fryer grease; IF true, don't know if that corrulates to any effect while washing biodiesel. Their product is a min. rating of 20 microns according to Bernie. It's almost like a light fine sandy consistancy. http://www.miroil.com/ I'm hopeful that this is also an alternative simply because of the convenience factor on my end. Jim D. You appear to be spear-heading the analysis of the Magnesol. If you're willing, I'd liked to send a sample of the Frypowder to you for a comparison. Those that are using the Magnesol - Are you using a traditional wash tank w/ the stand pipe? Are you heating the biodiesel before adding the powder? If so, how? How are you mixing and how long? |
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Look over the box closely. I bet somewhere on there it says manufactured by the Dallas Group. You probably have Magnesol XL repackaged by mirol.
Got to get going! -Jim |
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Possible, but just based upon the converation w/ the factory, I believe it's different - but not sure.
The box indicates that Miroil is a division of Oil Process Systems Inc. out of Allentown PA 18103. Manufactured under US patents 4,330,564 / 4,349,451 / 5,200,224 Canada patent 1,337,466 / Euro patent 0309235 I have the MSDS sheets in a PDF file, I see how to browse for files via the 'Add Attachment?' link here, but I can't figure out how to post the attachment to the reply thread. Or do I need to scan and attach it as an image hosted online? Ingredients: Non-inert = Aqueous Citric Acid Inert = Perlitic Mineral It's Non-Soluble in water Any of this corrulate to Magnesol? I'm just curious as to whether it's the same as Magnesol, or better / worse. |
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It's worth testing. How much is it? If it works and is cheaper than Magnesol R60 then I say go for it. At this point it is all about making dry washing effective and affordable.
Some of the Magnesol info is at http://www.Dallasgrp.com . -Jim |
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The Frypowder is $26.00 for a 7 lb bag at our stores, our website indicates it's 2.5 lbs. - not accurate on our end. So it's just a 'little' better than the Magnesol.
As I mentioned, it's just convenient for me to get and I'm curious as to how it performs / compares. Jim D. If your game, I'd liked to send you a sample of this to compare w/ the Magnesol. Give me a PM if you do not object. |
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At $26.00 per 7lb box it is more than twice the cost of Magnesol . For the same money I can get 17lbs . Is it less expensive in quantity , or are you just hoping to use what you can get locally ? I have ordered from Jim and got great service , I will just stick with him and a proven product .
Shannon |
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I'm not trying to sell this; the company I work just happens to carry this product.
I had forgotten that Jim was offering the Magnesol at a discounted price, his $1.50/lb offer is cheaper. I can buy our product at a 25% discount for personal use and not have freight concerns. I'm more curious as to the science. Which product is better, worse, or indifferent. Hence, why I have offered to send a sample to Jim for a comparison. Just my nature of wanting to compare and contrast different products. I'm not up and running yet and even if I was, I'm very much a rookie w/ regards to processing bio-diesel and look to those here who have more experience w/ the process. I very much appreciate everyones input. |
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How is everyone getting rid of the methanol in their Biodiesel before processing.
1. Heat and boil off (can you recover the Methanol) 2. evaporation. I want to collect my Methanol and reuse it. However, I am trying to figure out how to do this without reversing the biosiesel process. ALL help appreciated, Ian P.S. I have approx 150 gallons of WVO sitting in my tote in the back of the truck right now and early indications are it will titrate at 10. I will be using the Acid/Base method for conversion. |
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member 2009 Sponsor |
Separate the glycerin from the BD by settling first, then extract the methanol from each. That's my understanding how to avoid reversing the reaction - keep the components apart, and they can't recombine. Most of the residual methanol is in the glycerin. |
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I built a methanol recovery condenser that connects to my processor through a vent in the top . It is not however aided by vacuum . I heat the oil to around 175 - 180 before opening the valve to the condenser and run the pump to recirculate . The condenser is fabricated inside of a cooler that I fill with ice to cool the methanol . It takes the condenser about 20-30 minuites to recover the methanol from a medium size batch , about 15 gallons . It is a new idea that I have been playing with , and have not yet tried it on any really large batches . I hope to have something similar to this idea on a large scale when I build a much larger Appleseed . I am currently looking for a 150 gallon water heater and will build the recovery unit into a 120 quart cooler . The small unit has 20ft of contact surface , and I think the large on will probably need more in the range of 100ft of contact surface . The main drawback of this idea is that it still has the need to be vented to the outdoors . I made a methoxide carboy that has air fittings on it for the input / output so all I have to do is connect an air hose onto the vent of the carboy and run it out the back door of my shop . This is not really as good as you could get with a vacuum recovery system , but it will still work with vacuum if you later decide to upgrade . It would require a few minor changes to be usefull in a vacuum system .
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Do you seperate the glycerol out before you recover the methanol or do you recover/recirculate ALL the Methanol/Biodiesel Ian |
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Ian ,
I am separating the glycerine from the biodiesel and recovering the methanol from the biodiesel prior to treating it with the Magnesol . I recover the methanol from the glycerine in separate batches . I usually recover from the glycerine every other batch to avoid having too much glycerine in the processor at once . Good Luck , Shannon |
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I got Magnesol from JimD (thank you for the great price and fast delivery Jim
 ). I made a batch of bioD with 7 liters of unused, rancid soy oil and drained off the glycerin. Than I weighed out Magnesol and shook it into the bioD. I let it settle for 3 weeks, then took a sample to my physiology Lab and examined it under a stereoscopic primary microscope. At 400X I noticed a very few little specs, so I went up to 1,000X. The specs were not mineral at all. They were clear spheres, with some chains of smaller brown spheres along the periphery. I'm no microbiologist, but I am pretty sure the structure is bacterial. I can't guarantee these results as I only had a short time before class started so I was rushed. And, I don't believe I'd rely strictly on settling to remove Magnesol, but it is reassuring that it appears to settle out completely. CONCLUSION: if you store finished, filtered bioD in a standpipe tank and let it settle, you will add a measure of safety for your vehicle. |
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Hey, I'm in!!
This is my first post on this site. Does anyone know more about recycling Magnesol? I saw one mention of that on this site. I was also curious if anyone knows how abrasive this material would be to an engine. Our local commercial biodiesel plant is switching over to Magnesol. Their plant is expanding. In the same floor space as their previous set-up, they will have 5 times the production capability. They said they will eliminate their waste water costs also; they currently have to load their waste water on tankers to send it to treatment plants. For them this seems like a fantastic solution. As I get started in this hobby / single-handedly-save-the-earth venture, I am trying to decide whether to go the Magnesol route. |
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Gillig-dan ,
Welcome aboard , this is a great site with tons of good info on it . The last post I recall having read about the recycling of the Magnesol indicated that there would be no advantage to attemt to recycle it . I would think it would negate any time or water savings you would have gained through the use of Magnesol in the first place , at which time you may as well save your money and water wash your fuel . I don't think the cost of Magnesol is really that high in comparison to the time and water saved by not water washing and drying . You just need to decide how much time you are willing to invest to save a little extra money on your fuel costs . Good Luck , Shannon |
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The only thing I can think of is that you might be able to wash out the soaps from the magnesol after it is filtered out from the diesel. This would still use the same amount of water, but would keep the diesel dry. Will it work? I just don't know. If you have a good way to dry the magnesol after (spread it out under a glass case in the sun and run a small fan over it to pull the moisture off) then it COULD work. If someone gets a chance to try it I say go for it. We have the soap test so you can try it on some raw biodiesel and see how effective it is. The 1% by weight per 800ppm probably will not be accurate, but you can at least test before, throw some recycled magnesol in to treat, filter it out, and then test after. If there is any left you can treat again with new or used. Or you can just way over apply with recycled magnesol and then test afterwards to ensure that it was effective.
It will kill my sales, but I'm in this for a cheap way to effectively dry wash biodiesel. I'm not in it for the money. -Jim |
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Where can I buy 1 micron or less "absolute" filters from. I have my soap down to approx 91.32 ppm an want to see if a 1 mcron absolute filter would make a difference. Please point me in the right direction.
Ian |
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Jim,
Where are you on filtering.. I recall that at one point you were going to have some particle count tests done? |
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