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ski
-bingo the brownish stuff, water is the water picking up the residual byproduct, if you try to wash with byproduct in the mix, you will encounter the emulsion problems you have had! two things that I can think of that will help, do a 5% pre wash, or be sure you drain all the by product, as an old saying goes, from back before the pre wash, "I'd rather have a little biodiesel in the byproduct than byproduct in the biodiesel " Tom " I don't know what I don't know until I know" 1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005. |
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OK 5% pre-wash.. i guess it's time I cross that bridge too... I've been hesitant to add water to my reactor after spending so much time trying to get the water OUT of it.
At this point I'm using a 40 gallon propane heater for the drying, acid and base stage, then draining the glycerol and then pumping to the second stage reactor. Second stage is a 40 gallon electric hot water heater for the methanol recovery. From there it would go into the 3rd stage -the wash tank. Questions.. 1- Am i nuts to worry about the water from the prewash with the water heaters.. since they don't drain fully? I have been afraid it would screw up the next batch???? 2- Would it make more sense to pump to the second stage tank before settling and add the water to that, then settle and drain the glycerol from the second stage instead of the first? 3- Can someone explain what the pre-wash is doing to help? I know it makes washing easier, but I don't understand how. I read it stops the reaction, but that seems bad to me. Why wouldn't you want the reaction to continue to finish the trace amounts of unreacted goodies? And How does stopping it with the pre-wash actually stop the emulsion and brown water in the wash stage? thanks! Oh one more- How does one do a 3/27 test before the main washing if you've introduced water witha pre-wash? The one time I skipped the 3/27 test before washign i had problems, and have been testing after drainign the glycerol before removing methanol and washing. Do I lose my quality check by adding a pre-wash? |
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ski
I have tried to answer this post 3 times, but the reply diapears don't know what is going on will try again in the morning " I don't know what I don't know until I know" 1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005. |
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Will |
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ski
-fisrt, do 3/27 before 5% pre wash, I don't shut the reactor down until this test is a pass. -the by producct and soaps are more attracted to water than they are to the biodiesel, so by adding a small amount of water,5%, it will gather most of the soap and all of the byproduct making the bubble wash step much easier. I static rinse 2 times, and will even do it 3 times if the water is still brown. -I don't like to add water to the processor for the same reasons you mention, so I have a tank specially for the static rinse. I use static rinsing because I drain off most of the by product before the 5% water is added. If I where to pump mix in this situation I would form an emulsion for sure. If you don't drain the by product, and thats the way the process was designed, then you can pump mix and not have to worry about creating the dreaded emulsion. Tom " I don't know what I don't know until I know" 1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005. |
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OK you made my head tingle...
So the 3/27 test is Ok to do before you let the glycerol settle out? If so, you're running the test at 131F and not 68 degrees correct? Wouldn't that give false negatives? And I hadn't even thought about teh emulsion in the pumps.. but with 5% water and adding it before I let the glycerol settle out, then I should be good to go without emulsion forming because of the pumps... correct? If so- I think I'll pump to my second stage before settling and then add the water there... it's just methanol recovery in there anyway- so it shouldn't be too much of an issue. My long term goal (once I build my still) would be to use the recovered methanol in the acid stage anyway- where the water will settle out before the base is added. So the little bit of water shouldn't hurt- I hope!! Thanks Tom! |
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ski
-don't read between the lines  3/27 must be done within the guidelines for that test, Draw a sample, let it set for 20/30 min so the byproduct has a chance to settle, then do the test. during this period I keep the processor running, just in case it does not pass, 68f is the temp you need, so a container of cold water can be used to lower the temp, or , I just keep a small jar of methanol in the freezer, and after mixing the temp is always less than 68F, and it warms up quickly.-moving the whole batch out of the processor would, as I've stated, be my choice, but there are many here that do it all in one tank, so what ever works for you and you are comfortable with, there is NO right or wrong in this decission. -yes, if you do the 5% pre wash as it was designed, before removing the byproduct, then you will not have any problems letting the pump mix the water in. I mix for about 10 mins, sometimes if I forget, a lot longer and there have been no problems in that process. Since I have been using a separate tank and draining most of the byproduct first (mixed with saw dust it makes a great fire) I only use the static wash, as you know the by product will break an emulsion, but in smaller quantities cause the dreaded curse! Tom" I don't know what I don't know until I know" 1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005. |
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Ski, if you think about doing the 3/27 the way Tom does it, the 3 ml of hot bd added to 27 ml of chilled methanol will not have any lasting effect on the test temp.
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Cool-o Thanks much! I'll be playing with some new methods in the next week or so and see how things go. That said- the batch washing now is the best one yet... figures!
Thanks again! |
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