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New Methods #2. The Imisides Method
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That's a decent yield Tilly. I'm interested in improving my own process as last year I did three batches on the trot and only achieved 160 litres of fuel from 200 litres of oil. I've just done a process 1/3 KOH and 2/3 ASM and seem to have achieved a much better result - I will know for sure after washing. I'm going to try this new simplified anhydrous process when it's posted: why don't you give it a go and we can compare results?

David
 
Location: Leeds, UK | Registered: April 13, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi David,

quote:
Originally posted by David Shinn:
I'm going to try this new simplified anhydrous process when it's posted:
David
I think you will find the new simplified anhydrous process has been posted:
"BTW the modification I have made is to substitute General Purpose Grey Cement as the drying agent"


quote:
why don't you give it a go and we can compare results?
I do not see value for money or time spent using this procedure.
As it is I am currently giving away about 1000 litres of WVO a month that is excess to my requirements so a few percent of extra yield at the expense of buying cememt and ALL THE EXTRA TIME required is not worth it to me.

If I were to give the procedure a try I would do it as a series of tests to verify some of the amazing claims that have been made about it.
Like when I did the test series on the Titrationless disaster. Wink






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
When I added the calcium oxide to my mixed potassium methoxide, I probably added too much in an attempt to make sure it was as dry as possible. Someone on the UK forum suggested that this could have formed some calcium methoxide and this was the reason that the calcium soaps were present in the resultant bio.


You can't use too much - that's the beauty of a heterogenous process. I use 20k cement now in 130L of a 10%w/v KOH solution, so if you were using CaO that amount would be plenty. You're sure it's CaO (quicklime) and not Ca(OH)2 hydrated lime? Where do you live, and where do you get it from?

The only killer for this method is water. You mentioned in your PM that you wash the oil with glycerol. I'm not sure where you got the idea that this will remove water, but let me assure you it won't. If your oil is wet, there is no simple way to dry it chemically.

Therefore the only solution is to make sure it's dry to start with. For me the test is simply whether the oil is transparent (as opposed to murky). If it's transparent, then it's dry enough.

BTW, I'm not sure how my username changed to Minder, but I am Mark Imisides, the original author of this method.
 
Registered: December 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Mark,

Thankyou for the reply. I was wondering how or why your username had changed, anyway it is nice to know.

Using glycerol to pre-treat the oil is a common way here in the UK to start the process. I have both karl Fischer and sandy brae water testing equipment and from testing I have done my well settled oil (probably 3 months) has 850ppm water.

After mixing with glycerol from the previous batch at 50 to 60 degrees the oil shows 350ppm water and as my oil titrates at only about 1.0 KOH the glycerol treatment neutralises any FFA's so the oil is actually alkaline. Doing a soap titration test on this treated oil shows soap in the 1200ppm range.

Yes, it was quicklime, CaO that I used which was bought from a local company that produces it commercially.
I am located in York, North Yorkshire, England.

Many Thanks, Dave.
 
Location: YORK UK | Registered: April 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello Mark

Really interesting, thank you. I will try your method again, using cement, for my next process. Scaling down your quantities, that gives a figure of 0.15Kg of cement per litre of methoxide.

Will let you know how I get on.

I am located not so far away from dgs (Dave), and I live just out side the town of Leeds in West Yorkshire, England.

Any further advice about the process greatly appreciated.

David
 
Location: Leeds, UK | Registered: April 13, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
After mixing with glycerol from the previous batch at 50 to 60 degrees the oil shows 350ppm water and as my oil titrates at only about 1.0 KOH the glycerol treatment neutralises any FFA's so the oil is actually alkaline. Doing a soap titration test on this treated oil shows soap in the 1200ppm range.


Very interesting. My rationale was that since glycerol is both hydrophilic and alkaline, there was every chance that bu exposing it to oil (containing FFAs) you'd end up partitioning micelles of water into the oil. The fact that it went the other way says something about the HLBs of the surfactants formed by the alakline FFAs.

Anyhow, for my method you don't need any testing at all. As long as the oil is visually clear then it'll work
 
Registered: December 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hi Minder,
Do you remember 4 or 5 years ago when there was a long discussion about this procedure on another forum?
At the time you posted the following;

"And remember, the bio process is about one thing only - reducing viscosity. If you have incomplete conversion it doesn't matter, as we know that diesel motors run fine on WVO anyway as long as it's thin enough. And incomplete conversion is inevitable anyway"...

"Soap is certainly not a problem on its own. Guys that run SVO have no problem with FFAs in their fuel, and it's hard to see why the sodium or potassium salt of the FFA (soap) would be a problem"...

"These things ar OK in your fuel:
1. Methyl ester
2. Unconverted WVO (unless there is enough of it to affect the viscosity)
3. FFA
4. soap"...

"One other thing - there is a lot of talk on this site about the 3/27 test, as though it's important.
It's not.
Making biodiesel is all about one thing - reducing viscocity. It doesn't matter if you have unconverted triglycerides in your fuel"...


Most of the people you are talking to now would not agree with these statements.
I am wondering whether these statements still represent your position.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi All,

Sorry for posting under yet another name but I forgot my login details and my email address has changed since I last posted so I couldn't recover it.

I have now a page page dedicated to this method on my website website. It's free to visit and comment on.

One problem with the initial posting was that there was a limit on the number of characters and so I had to trim it somewhat, so I couldn't go into as much detail as I wanted to. But of course on my own website that wasn't a problem.

It's divided into two sections - the first explains the chemistry and the second is the method. You don't have to have understood the chemistry to follow the method. There's a place at the bottom where you can make comments or ask questions.

Note that I will be making no further contributions to this thread on this forum as I simply don't have the time to plough through all the comments (many are unfortunately based on a limited understanding of chemistry) or conduct online chemistry tutorials. And the beauty of this method is that it is so simple that you don't actually need to understand a thing about the method.

Mark Imisides (aka Dr Chemical)
 
Registered: September 28, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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