BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





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Hot Coffee

Gotta love those grand-kids.

I was eating breakfast with my 10-year-old Granddaughter and I asked her,
What day is tomorrow?".

Without skipping a beat she said, "It's Prime Minister Day!".

She's smart, so I asked her "What does Prime Minister Day mean?".

I was waiting for something about Trudeau or Martin, etc.

She replied, "Prime Minister Day is when Prime Minister Harper steps out of the Prime Minister Mansion,
And if he sees his shadow, we have 4 more years of Bull ****."

You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose!



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hilarious!
 
Registered: December 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nearly a year since anyone posted here.

What happened.

The the bar and grill put up the shutters ?

dva
 
Location: Yorks,England | Registered: June 30, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Never got a reply from you dva when I asked where in Yorkshire you were?

Dave, Strensall.

Sorry dva, just seen your reply, I've sent you a pm.
 
Location: YORK UK | Registered: April 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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DGS,

No worries, got the PM.

This thread used to be very popular, mostly amongst the USA contingent.

Wonder why it died ?

Dave.

P.S. How many more (current) UK users are you aware off ?
 
Location: Yorks,England | Registered: June 30, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi dva,

quote:
Originally posted by dva:
This thread used to be very popular, mostly amongst the USA contingent.
Wonder why it died ?
I suspect the reason this thread has died and in fact the whole forum has been dead for several years is because a great majority of people who used to make and use biodiesel no longer make or use biodiesel.

There are several likely reasons for this large decrease in the number of people making biodiesel which includes but is not limited to the following points:
1. Diesel fuel in the USA is quite a bit cheaper than it used to be.
2. For the last 10 years or more, all diesel engines in automobiles have been of the Direct Injection variety. Manufacturers specifically warn against the use of biodiesel in these engines and the disasters that will occur if biodiesel is used. This results in many/ most people being very hesitant in using biodiesel in their expensive direct injection diesel vehicle.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Tilly,

You are probably right.

Here in the UK though, Diesel is still relatively expensive. I am paying £1.20 per Litre.

So one may have expected the UK bio scene to be still thriving.
I have noticed that it is very rare to get that whiff of bio from a passing vehicle these days.

I'm surprised there isn't a whole new sub culture of people going to scrapyards, dragging out and rebuilding Mercedes 300D cars to be used just on bio.

My old Citroens (both XUD) seem to be quite happy on the stuff. No way would I buy a modern all singing/dancing common rail Diesel engined car; even if I could afford one.

I have a MIG welder, a TIG welder and some old refrigerator bodies, I can make my cars last forever.

Dave.

(P.S. And two spare engines)
 
Location: Yorks,England | Registered: June 30, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Tilly:
Hi dva,

quote:
Originally posted by dva:
This thread used to be very popular, mostly amongst the USA contingent.
Wonder why it died ?
I suspect the reason this thread has died and in fact the whole forum has been dead for several years is because a great majority of people who used to make and use biodiesel no longer make or use biodiesel.

There are several likely reasons for this large decrease in the number of people making biodiesel which includes but is not limited to the following points:
1. Diesel fuel in the USA is quite a bit cheaper than it used to be.
2. For the last 10 years or more, all diesel engines in automobiles have been of the Direct Injection variety. Manufacturers specifically warn against the use of biodiesel in these engines and the disasters that will occur if biodiesel is used. This results in many/ most people being very hesitant in using biodiesel in their expensive direct injection diesel vehicle.


There is another reason why many don't post on here any more
 
Location: YORK UK | Registered: April 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Dgs,

quote:
Originally posted by Dgs:
There is another reason why many don't post on here any more
I can think of several more reasons why people have stopped posting on this forum, but the fact that for the last 10 years automobile manufacturers have been warning that their new diesel cars are not compatible with biodiesel along with the fact the price of diesel fuel in the USA has dropped significantly are the two major reasons people stopped posting.

As the below graph shows, the price of diesel fuel in the USA was cut in half between 2014 and 2016 when the cost of a gallon of #2 Highway diesel fuel crashed from around $4.00 a gallon to around $2.00 a gallon, about 53 cents US a litre which would be around 40 Pence a litre in the UK.
I imagine there would be a whole lot of people in the UK who would suddenly find many reasons to stop making biodiesel if on the road diesel cost 40p a litre.

With that type of huge reduction in price, many people in the USA suddenly discovered they could save the world in other ways besides making and using biodiesel Wink



If you are no longer making and using biodiesel there is not much incentive to continue discussing the finer points of it's production with other people- there is also very little incentive to start making and using biodiesel


You will notice the same thing has happened on the SVO forum and, I am sure, for much the same reason.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tilly,






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I became interested in when the decline in biodiesel use did start and what the major reason for the decline likely was.
As some of you older biodiesel users might remember, there was a very popular Yahoo biodiesel discussion forum and it no longer is operating. So I had a look at the numbers on the yahoo forum and the big decline in participation on the Yahoo Biodiesel forum started in 2009.
1n 2008, posts to the yahoo biodiesel forum totaled 2715. The following year in 2009 participation on the forum had crashed to only 905 posts.
The yahoo forum then struggled on for several years with a much reduced participation number until the forum virtually died in 2013 with a total of only 51 posts for the entire year. There were 39 posts in 2014, 2 posts in 2015 and 17 posts in 2016.

The yahoo Biodiesel forum was then "Mothballed" and made a private forum with the owner explaining:
"This group is essentially defunct. California introduced strict new diesel rules, and in 2006 diesel cars were modified in a way that causes problems with Biodiesel. Since then, BD has seen a steep decline, which has been reflected in this group's traffic. From a peak of over 800 messages in one month in 2005, we've seen 8 messages in the past 6 months, most of which were spam."

As you can see, the price of diesel did not start to decline until 2014, over a year after the Yahoo biodiesel forum had virtually ceased to function from a lack of participation.

This strongly suggests that the owner of the Yahoo forum was correct and the main reason for the decline in backyard biodiesel production is mostly because diesel engines changed to direct injection with the warnings against using biodiesel from the engine manufacturers

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tilly,






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
This strongly suggests that the owner of the Yahoo forum was correct and the main reason for the decline in backyard biodiesel production is mostly because diesel engines changed to direct injection with the warnings against using biodiesel from the engine manufacturers



Could be. I don't know if there is any great advantage in using direct injection. The engines are certainly noisier. One would have to have a improvement of, say, 20% in fuel consumption to make it worth the change. But as the fuel cost decreased that would tend to wipe out that difference.

I always contended that from the point of view of 'saving the world', fuel prices should be as high as reasonably possible.

It acts as a deterrent to frivolous journeys. And forces technological advancement.

I suppose that now the Golden Age of bio Diesel is past, old veg oil should be more easily obtainable.

Has anyone noticed that correlation ?

Dave.
 
Location: Yorks,England | Registered: June 30, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi dva,

quote:
Originally posted by dva:
Could be. I don't know if there is any great advantage in using direct injection...One would have to have a improvement of, say, 20% in fuel consumption to make it worth the change.
DI diesel engines are more fuel efficient than IDI diesel engines.
I think you would find that Auto makers would sell their children for something that would give them a 2%- 3% increase in economy. For a 20% improvement they would sell their wife and mother.



quote:
But as the fuel cost decreased that would tend to wipe out that difference.
DI diesels have been used for years in large trucks.
The switch to the DI technology in the lightweight diesels used in family size vehicles occurred in the early 2000's, a good 10 years before the cost of diesel plummeted in the USA . By the time the price of diesel started to fall in 2014 everyone had changed to direct injection diesel engines
However, I suspect the real reason for switching to direct injection diesel engines was more related to better pollution control.
The fact that the DI engines are more responsive, more efficient and produce considerably more power than a comparable IDI engine is just a lucky coincidence.



quote:
The engines are certainly noisier.
In my experience the modern DI diesel engines are quieter than the older IDI diesel engines.

The old DI truck motors that have been used for years in heavy duty trucks are certainly noisy.
Most of us are concerned with our every day driver that the wife and kids will be driving.

My wife has a RAV 4 2.2 litre DI diesel company car and it is so smooth and quiet, not to mention the amazing "neck Snapping" acceleration available for passing compared to my 2.9 IDI Mercedes diesel powered Musso- I am impressed






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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You've all heard that tale about boiling a frog, well biodiesel interest is similar. The frog stays in the pot as log as the water heats up gradually and as long as the fuel prices gradually change, there is little interest in biodiesel.

There is a correlation between the speed of increase of fuel prices and increase in page views on my website. The decline in page views seems to be less tied to anything other than time. So to phrase differently, when the price of fuel jumps dramatically people become interested. But people move on to other interests based on other things.
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just noticed that Diesel is up to £1.29 per Litre at our Morrisons.

£5.89 an Imperial Gallon.

'Struth', as Tilly may say.

Dave.
 
Location: Yorks,England | Registered: June 30, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Additional.

I'll throw this in here, although it isn't really the right place.

A link I have looked at (yes dgs, that link) is calling for 0.01N Hydrochloric acid for titration purposes.

I have 0.04N HCL. Can i just dilute it in two 50% stages, i.e. 50/50 0.04N/distilled water, then 50/50 of the resultant solution/distilled water.

Dave.
 
Location: Yorks,England | Registered: June 30, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi RickDaTech,

quote:
Originally posted by RickDaTech:
...So to phrase differently, when the price of fuel jumps dramatically people become interested. But people move on to other interests based on other things.
Yes, I am sure that the more expensive diesel becomes the more likely it is for someone to become interested in the possibility of making and using biodiesel in their car. However, I suspect you will find that as soon as these people learn that the manufacturers of their very expensive diesel vehicle warns against using biodiesel that is as far as they go- most of these people will never get to the next stage of actually joining a biodiesel discuss forum and start posting.

It is the people who have actually taken the next step and joined and participated in the discussions of a biodiesel forum who's numbers have greatly reduced, the people who are either already making biodiesel or will probably go on and make biodiesel.

The numbers for the Yahoo Biodiesel group shows that participation numbers fell in 2009, and only got worse in the following years even though the price of diesel hit $4.00 a gallon

I would never consider putting biodiesel in my Wife's RAV 4 Diesel.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tilly, in the 10 years now I have been reading through biodiesel forums I never once saw a warning about putting BD in DI motors. Common rail perhaps, but never DI.
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Paulus

quote:
Originally posted by Paulus:
Tilly, in the 10 years now I have been reading through biodiesel forums I never once saw a warning about putting BD in DI motors. Common rail perhaps, but never DI.
I do not recall saying this warning was in discussion forums. I said the vehicle manufacturers make this warning.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Numbers for this forum are a bit harder to come by.

So I did a count of the number of active discussions in the "General Biodiesel Discussion" forum for 2009 and found there had been about 593 active discussions in that year.

By 2013 the number of active discussions in the "General Biodiesel Discussion" had decreased to about 118 for the year.

If you recall, 2009 was just after the Global financial crisis when the price of diesel in the USA had fallen to $2.00 a gallon. By 2013, when the number of active discussions in the "General Biodiesel Discussion" Forum on this forum had fallen by about 80%, the price of diesel fuel had doubled to about $4.00 a gallon.

ADDITION
The difference in the "Making Biodiesel" forum were even greater.
In 2009 there had been about 574 active discussions in the Making Biodiesel" Forum.
In 2013 there were only about 82 active discussions for the year- a drop of about 85%

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tilly,






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sheep are quick to follow the fold. The black sheep seldom gets any attention unless he’s on the greener side of the fence, which
in a broken social order may cause him to be ostracized for his good fortune.
 
Location: Central Illinois | Registered: November 24, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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