BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Bio Brewers Bar and Grill  Hop To Forums  Bio Brewers Bar and Grill    Bio Brewer's Bar and Grill (off topic forum)
Page 1 2 3 4 5 ... 25
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Bio Brewer's Bar and Grill (off topic forum)
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
As I suspected it appears that the "southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary" has nothing to do with the preservation or conservation of whales and is in fact in contravention of the rules set out by the ICRW.
It sounds like just another political agenda with political wrangling to me!
So are the Japs fishing illegally or is the sanctuary illegal?
Here is some information from Wikipedia with lots of follow up information listed at the bottom of the page...

quote:
Dispute over legality of sanctuary

Japan has argued that the establishment of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary was in contravention of the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling (ICRW) on which the IWC is based and is therefore illegal.

This view received strong support from Professor W. T. Burke of the University of Washington in his paper circulated as IWC Document Number IWC/48/33. He refers to Article V(2)(b) of the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling (ICRW) which requires that there be a scientific necessity for the amendment to the Schedule required for the creation of such a sanctuary.[3] The lack of supporting evidence for such a necessity is problematic as the ICRW stipulates that amendments to the Schedule shall be based on scientific findings and that amendments shall only be made when "necessary to carry out the objectives and purposes of the Convention" and that "the interests of the consumers of whale products and the whale industry" shall be considered.[4]

Furthermore, Dr. Douglas Butterworth has suggested that the sanctuary in "the Southern Ocean [is] a transparent attempt to prevent the resumption of whaling on the 750,000 strong Antarctic Minke population for reasons which have nothing to do with science."[5]

As there is no settlement procedure in the IWC for this type of dispute, Japan has asked the IWC to submit its case to a relevant legal body for analysis. The IWC has refused to do so.[6]


I consider myself a conservationist and an environmentalist but I also believe in science and rational thought when it comes to such things. The Sea Shepherds and Greenpeace alike lack these important tributes and have caused much damage to people in the north and elsewhere that make a living on things that may seem barbaric or unnecessary to certain people looking out of their highrise apartment windows. Their "science" is based on pure propaganda...
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Jon, I respect your opinions but notwithstanding, political activism has a place. If not for Greenpeace (and the New Zealand government) France would still be doing underground nuclear testing at Mururoa Atoll. Let them explode nuclear weapons in their own back yard...
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I agree 100% Paulus.
However, the efforts of the Sea Shepherds to stop the seal hunt in Canada and also what they appear to be doing now to the Japanese could not be considered "political activism" but rather an outright attack on peoples livelihood and an attack without any facts or science to back up their efforts and cause.
Greenpeace is not who they once were either, they seem more like a corporation now then an activist group. They fight for the causes that can generate the most revenue and attention for their corporation.
As always money corrupts...
Cheers,
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The Sea Shepherds have no connection to Green Peace, you simply cannot call yourself a conservationist if you think these people, who actually risk their lives doing something they believe in are hippie, nut job, whackos, what it boils down to is the simple fact that in the twenty first century, mankind has absolutely no business brutally murdering some of the most intelligent mammals in the ocean.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Interesting stance...

The Sea Shepherds society was founded by Paul Watson who claims to be an original founding member of Greenpeace, I would say that is a connection whether or not they have have any affiliation now.
And for the record conservationism has ZERO to do with activism or the Sea Shepherds and what they stand for and do.
quote:
what it boils down to is the simple fact that in the twenty first century, mankind has absolutely no business brutally murdering some of the most intelligent mammals in the ocean.

At what IQ level should we stop "brutally murdering" other mammals? I have known some goats that could outwit several apprentices I have had and in the end the goats were legally "brutally murdered" for their meat... LOL
I just finished some lovely roast beast that was also brutally murdered and a cow is considered very intelligent and sacred to some. Whale meat is to Japanese what beef is to us... Its all relative as ugly as it may be.
Besides all that what makes you think a whale is any more intelligent then say a shark or even an octopus or cuttle fish?

What the Sea Shepherds have done and continue to do to my fellow Canadians is baseless, factless and inexcusable on many levels. The so called Sea Shepherds pride themselves on how many ships they have sunk and hard working people they have put out of work and not just the Japanese...
The media does seem to successfully glorify these bleeding heart causes though...
We will have to agree to disagree on this one Fab because no matter how you slice it these folks are WACKOS! Razz
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Greenpeace, Sea Shepherd, and PETA are all in the same nut-bowl. Most appear to be more into self promotion than any so-called cause they may appear to support.

Regardless, humans shouldn't over-harvest any species to an 'endangered' level just for food.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Make no mistake here, I have been a hunter all my life, my personal arsenal is probably larger than some RCMP posts have and I use it all the time to hunt tasty animals, however there are animals that civilized people regard as not appropriate for eating like dolphins, chimpanzees, all the great apes, that should certainly extend to sea mammals that are as intelligent as dolphins.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
there are animals that civilized people regard as not appropriate for eating like dolphins, chimpanzees, all the great apes, that should certainly extend to sea mammals that are as intelligent as dolphins.
That should also include bears, pigs, cats, and dogs. I wouldn't eat any of them. I only eat herbivores and some fish.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
Greenpeace, Sea Shepherd, and PETA are all in the same nut-bowl. Most appear to be more into self promotion than any so-called cause they may appear to support.

Regardless, humans shouldn't over-harvest any species to an 'endangered' level just for food.

I agree 100%
Just an FYI the Japanese are hunting minke whales which have never been on the endangered list. Source

quote:
my personal arsenal is probably larger than some RCMP posts

LOL! Well I am glad you are not someone who thinks their steak grows in Styrofoam plates at the butcher shop. Smile
I don't suffer the appetite problems of you sophisticated types, its a texture thing with me.
I could eat a monkey steak with the same level of guilt I would have eating a piece of chicken.
I have a different take on intelligence then most. I think intelligence is all relative, man included. Looking at nature puts it all into perspective for me. When I look at a beaver dam on a stunning remote lake or a fox den in the side of a hill overlooking a river or whatever, I have to wonder who is more intelligent, who has it better...
We are just lucky to be at the top of the food chain. lol

Maybe I am the wacko eh! Razz

There is an interesting paragraph in the article linked to above about whale intelligence if your interested;
quote:
Intelligence
Main articles: Cetacean intelligence and Animal cognition

While whales possess the largest physical brains of any animal, there is no consensus about the existence, nature and magnitude of cetacean intelligence. This lack of knowledge is partly because of the cost and difficulty of carrying out research with marine mammals.[citation needed] Humpback whales have been found to have spindle neurons, a type of brain cell previously considered to exist only in dolphins, humans and other primates,[62] and some species of whale are highly social.

There is an argument that whales should not be killed because of their alleged high intelligence.[citation needed] Pro-whalers counter that pigs, which also possess high intelligence, are routinely butchered and eaten, or indeed that intelligence should not be the determining factor of whether an animal is acceptable to eat or not.[63]

Cheers,
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
From the same web page - "The report quoted official figures that said 20% of Norwegian and 60% of Japanese-captured whales failed to die as soon as they had been harpooned."

If you or I treated an animal like that, we would be imprisoned.

But also - the Japanese like their seafood. http://www.bluevoice.org/savedolphins.php

Right now one of these friendly, highly intelligent animals has taken up residence off our main beach. It's a huge hit. People can go up and touch it, and kids ride on it. http://www.3news.co.nz/Moko-th.../131398/Default.aspx

It even gave a couple of guys in a dinghy a really large snapper in perfect condition. They were blown away.

The Japanese are not a sentimental bunch, during the war they were up there with the Germans (indeed many nationalities aided by the Americans) for their pitiless cruelty to prisoners who they regarded as sub-human.

Say what you like but it's not for me. And I don't own a gun.

Paul
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
We had more excitement than we wanted on the day after New Years
Here is my blog entry http://outfitnm.com/2010/01/04...se-fire-jack-is-okay

Me looking freaked
the pics are here
http://outfitnm.com/2010/01/05...cks-house-renovation
follow up here
http://outfitnm.com/2010/01/06...good-test-for-giving
and this mornings newsletter
http://outfitnm.com/2010/01/07/bmn-snow-cookies-tired
**** happens, but it is wondrous how friends and family came together to help my brother when he needed it


Brian Rodgers

Home of the biodiesel drinking bears.
2005 Jeep Liberty, 2003 VW Jetta TDI
1992 Dodge Dually Cummins Peirce Arrow Dumpbed
http://www.outfitnm.com
 
Location: Northeastern New Mexico | Registered: October 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
From the same web page - "The report quoted official figures that said 20% of Norwegian and 60% of Japanese-captured whales failed to die as soon as they had been harpooned."

If you or I treated an animal like that, we would be imprisoned.

No Paulus, unfortunately thats the way it is for any animal that is hunted. In fact NO big game animal ever dies instantly after being shot, its just the ugly reality about killing things, including the things that were killed to supply your grocery store.
Cool story about the dolphin though! They are truly amazing creatures!
Like I stated above though, in my opinion that does not give them any more rights then any of the other amazing animals on our planet...
I grew up in the mountains hunting and fishing, studying survival skills and living off of the land. I also grew up around farming and rural life which includes an education in things that are not pretty but are a cold reality. That may be why my opinions may seem harsh or inconsiderate when it comes to nature, but the fact is I structure my life around preserving nature the best I can.

But again I am not out to defend the Japanese or whaling, I just dont condone the Sea Shepherds activity's and I am happy to see that one of their ships was sunk.
Cheers,
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
If you or I treated an animal like that, we would be imprisoned.

Not at all if you were in the industrial meat business. The ways in which pigs, poultry, and cattle are treated by the meat business would be considered inhumane, compared with how animals are free-range raised on a small family farm. I certainly avoid eating top-of-food-chain critters that have been treated that way. Most of the meat I eat comes from free range bison or wild herbivores.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Not as happy as I'll be the first time a japanese whaler is sunk with all hands.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Ady Gil sinks after whaling skirmish
http://www.abc.net.au/news/sto...10/01/08/2787921.htm


Damaged: the Sea Shepherd's Ady Gil came off worst in the collision (Sea Shepherd: Joanne McArthur)

The Sea Shepherd speedboat Ady Gil has sunk after it was sliced in two by a Japanese whaling vessel during a clash in the Southern Ocean on Wednesday.

Sea Shepherd founder Paul Watson told ABC News Breakfast the Ady Gil went down shortly before 8:30am AEDT today while it was being towed to an island.
....

Meanwhile, New Zealand officials have met with representatives from the Japanese embassy in Wellington to discuss the situation.

The ABC understands that at the Wellington meeting, Japan said it regarded the incident as "regrettable" but a "low-key event".

This morning a spokesman for the New Zealand Foreign Minister, Murray McCully, said contrary to media reports, Japan had not lodged a stern complaint with the New Zealand Government.

He said Japanese officials agreed with New Zealand that their citizens needed to have better regard for people on the high seas.

The spokesman said legal action over the collision had not been discussed, because it still had not been established who was at fault.

Maritime New Zealand has launched an investigation.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fabricator:
Not as happy as I'll be the first time a japanese whaler is sunk with all hands.

Fair enough. Big Grin
quote:
The spokesman said legal action over the collision had not been discussed, because it still had not been established who was at fault.

HA! no doubt! If any legal action will be taken it will be against the Sea Shepherds, they are the ones acting illegally and they are needlessly endangering themselves. The Japanese are doing nothing unlawful and are being harassed by people who have NO right to do so...
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fabricator:
Not as happy as I'll be the first time a japanese whaler is sunk with all hands.
..or an influenza generating swine operation burns to the ground. One is more 'moral' than the other?



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
We had more excitement than we wanted the day after New Years

Here is my blog entry on it
http://outfitnm.com/2010/01/04...se-fire-jack-is-okay
with follow ups here
http://outfitnm.com/2010/01/05...cks-house-renovation
and here:
http://outfitnm.com/2010/01/06...good-test-for-giving
Everything is working out now.
This morning we woke to sub zero and snow so we weren't able to do much on my brother's house. We did get a interior door mounted and a few other odds and ends.
Great community effort and a wondrous feeling having so many people come to help and work together


Brian Rodgers

Home of the biodiesel drinking bears.
2005 Jeep Liberty, 2003 VW Jetta TDI
1992 Dodge Dually Cummins Peirce Arrow Dumpbed
http://www.outfitnm.com
 
Location: Northeastern New Mexico | Registered: October 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Jon, I take your point. At least most if not all of the animal meat we eat is killed relatively humanely. Those whales take hours to die.

I was once a newspaper reporter in a seaside town near here where big game fishing is popular and periodically I would have to trot down to the wharf to take a picture of the latest record marlin or tuna that was strung up to be admired while all involved stood around slapping backs and beating chests.

I remember once a hammerhead shark giving birth to pups on the wharf. Some shark species, always regarded as vermin, are now becoming scarce.

And another time this guy, a farmer, remarked that he'd been fishing for 20 years for the not particularly remarkable fish that he'd caught. I asked if he was going to taste it and he said no, he was going to sell it for canning and that would at least pay for the diesel the boat had used that day.

Wanton destruction like this infuriated me. None of these people had any need for what they were catching other than to satisfy their bloodlust.
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Boss, That sucks man!
At least everyone is OK!

Paulus,
quote:
Wanton destruction like this infuriated me. None of these people had any need for what they were catching other than to satisfy their bloodlust.

I could not agree more.
I remember the first time I went deep sea fishing off the coast of British Columbia. My family had won a guide for a half day of salmon fishing. Shortly after setting out, my line went off and I fought in a beautiful baby shark (they called it a dogfish) about 24" long. After I got my picture with it and was about to release it the guide asked for it and then just sliced its throat and tossed it back in the ocean! Of course we let the guy know there would be no more of that to which he just smiled... Frown He claimed that the sharks steal their salmon baits and cut their lines so they just kill all they catch. To the guides chagrin we didnt keep any of the very few fish we caught that day and released them all, all dogfish Smile
I fish all I can but only ever keep enough for a nice feed. I hunt more to get into the great outdoors then to kill anything and if I do bag something nothing is wasted. This is how I was raised, only take what you need, waste nothing and respect mother earth and all her creatures.
Anyways... enough of this talk! I could go on for hours about my boring beliefs...

How about a round of pints for the boys barkeep!
Cheers,
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5 ... 25 
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Bio Brewers Bar and Grill  Hop To Forums  Bio Brewers Bar and Grill    Bio Brewer's Bar and Grill (off topic forum)

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014