I was wondering if you are able to test the cold filter plugging point, why do people test the cloud and gel points? Does testing the cloud and gel points have another application? I tested for cloud and gel point to find a round figure for when the biodiesel would clog the filter.
How do you manually test for the cold filter plugging point? So far online I only found machines that test the CFPP.

quote:

why do people test the cloud and gel points?

because the cloud and gel point temperatures can be observed in samples placed in the cold

Hi Anita-

If you are interested, this paper discusses the correlation between CFPP and CP. It is a bit heavy on the math, but I can paraphrase if you need me to.

Low Temperature Filterability Properties of Alternative Diesel Fuels from Vegetable Oils

Hope that helps,

Nick

The main issue here is when will my engine NOT start due to gelled fuel. Knowing the cloud point really tells you nothing more than when your fuel is cloudy. Having cloudy fuel is only the starting point of fats forming when fuel gets cold. When problems start, they are called either the Cold Filter Plug Point (CFPP)or Pour Point (PP). Vehicles may want to look at the CFPP, which occurs to fuel which still flows or pours. PP is just a mass of gelled fuel.

This may help explane cold flow issues with out the math. I hope this helps.

• Cloud Point (CP) is the temperature at which waxy crystals in Petro fuel (fats in Biodiesel) form a cloudy appearance. Cloud point is NOT an accurate indicator of the tendency of the fuel to stop flowing (Pour Point [PP]) or to plug filters or small orifices (Cold Filter Plug Point [CFPP]) at cold fuel temperatures. The CP will not tell you the PP or CFPP temperatures. CP is not a test to failure, there are no fuel pour, flow, or filtering failures that occur at CP temperatures, the fuel just becomes turbid, or cloudy.
At this temperature, fuel is able to flow and filter; there are no cold flow problems to cure or combat. Diesel and Home Heating fuel contain wax, biodiesel is produced from fats and oils; you cannot stop wax crystals, or fats, from forming when the fuel’s temperature drops, but you can control how they form and act.

• Cold Filter Plug Point (CFPP) is the lowest temperature, at which a given volume of fuel fails to pass through a standardized filtration device, in a specified amount of time, when cooled under certain conditions. This is a test to failure, and gives the coldest temperature, which the fuel is no longer filterable.
Although fuel is able to pour, wax crystal or fats form (CP), which are larger that the micron size of the filter, are caught by the filter, build-up clogging the filter and stopping fuel flow. CFPP is more important with vehicles, where the filters, lines and tanks are outdoors, with the vehicle.

• Pour Point is the lowest temperature a liquid will pour or flow under cold conditions.
Very similar to CFPP, except for the size of the wax crystals, PP wax crystals or fats are larger and more cohesive; these crystals bump into, and stick to each other, forming the un-flowing, un-filterable fuel mass known as gelled fuel. Gelled fuel is capable of plugging fuel pickups, lines and filters. It is possible for the entire fuel system to become gelled. With diesel vehicles, this mostly happens overnight when the engine is no longer running and the temperature drops.

Thanks everyone. That was really helpful. I still have one question though. Can you manually test for the cold filter plugging point, or is it possible that you could buy a machine that will find it for you? Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve@technol:
The main issue here is when will my engine NOT start due to gelled fuel. Knowing the cloud point really tells you nothing more than when your fuel is cloudy. Having cloudy fuel is only the starting point of fats forming when fuel gets cold. When problems start, they are called either the Cold Filter Plug Point (CFPP)or Pour Point (PP). Vehicles may want to look at the CFPP (brake caliper), which occurs to fuel which still flows or pours. PP is just a mass of gelled fuel.

[u]This may help explane cold flow issues with out the math. I hope this helps.[/u]

• Cloud Point (CP) is the temperature at which waxy crystals in Petro fuel (fats in Biodiesel) form a cloudy appearance. Cloud point is NOT an accurate indicator of the tendency of the fuel to stop flowing (Pour Point [PP]) or to plug filters or small orifices (Cold Filter Plug Point [CFPP]) at cold fuel temperatures. The CP will not tell you the PP or CFPP temperatures. CP is not a test to failure, there are no fuel pour, flow, or filtering failures that occur at CP temperatures, the fuel just becomes turbid, or cloudy.
At this temperature, fuel is able to flow and filter; there are no cold flow problems to cure or combat. Diesel and Home Heating fuel contain wax, biodiesel is produced from fats and oils; you cannot stop wax crystals, or fats, from forming when the fuel’s temperature drops, but you can control how they form and act.

• Cold Filter Plug Point (CFPP) is the lowest temperature, at which a given volume of fuel fails to pass through a standardized filtration device, in a specified amount of time, when cooled under certain conditions. This is a test to failure, and gives the coldest temperature, which the fuel is no longer filterable.
Although fuel is able to pour, wax crystal or fats form (CP), which are larger that the micron size of the filter, are caught by the filter, build-up clogging the filter and stopping fuel flow. CFPP is more important with vehicles, where the filters, lines and tanks are outdoors, with the vehicle.

• Pour Point is the lowest temperature a liquid will pour or flow under cold conditions.
Very similar to CFPP, except for the size of the wax crystals, PP wax crystals or fats are larger and more cohesive; these crystals bump into, and stick to each other, forming the un-flowing, un-filterable fuel mass known as gelled fuel. Gelled fuel is capable of plugging fuel pickups, lines and filters. It is possible for the entire fuel system to become gelled. With diesel vehicles, this mostly happens overnight when the engine is no longer running and the temperature drops.

I have a question about Cold Filter Plug Point. What is the lowest Cold Filter Plug Point for biodiesel made with canola?

I experienced problems at around 1 or 2 celcius. Stalled out 5 or 6 times on my typical 35 minute commute home.

quote:

What is the lowest Cold Filter Plug Point for biodiesel made with canola?

There is a range of temperatures that the CFPP may occur across, depending on the particular kind of canola oil feedstock. "Canola" covers a range of oils, all derived from related plants, and processed in different ways, depending on the intended market. "Winterized" Canola oil intended for salad dressing will have the lowest CP, and makes biodiesel with extremely low CFPP. It's unlikely to be found as used cooking oil, since it also costs more, and isn't usually sold as "cooking oil" or "Fryer grease". Those tend to be heavier fractions of the oil, left over from the winterization process.

"Creamy Canola Shortening" is the fraction left over after "winterizing" Canola salad oil. It's the fraction containing the higher melting point fats. Although it may have a high CP, most examples I've heard of work well as biodiesel down to +20F/-6C, which indicates a CFPP of about that temp. There may even by higher temperature limits for some other form of Canola oil, in theory. I haven't heard of any that are "worse" than this, though.

I used to obtain my used Canola cooking oil from a Deli that used it for donuts. It made biodiesel that worked reliably in my Land Rover down to -5F/-20C. The Manager did NOT buy it from the Fryer Service company, but used straight off-the-shelf Canola Cooking Oil in gallon jugs. That was in the good old days.

To sum up, Canola biodiesel will generally have a lower CFPP than soy, but the actual CFPP is dependant on the factory treatment and plant source.

Cheers,
JohnO

When I was having a lot of trouble with rice oil I talked to the head chemist at the firm that made the oil. He told me they put a better grade on supermarket shelves than that which they sold in bulk to restaurant supply places (35# cubies). The reason being that retail customers would not buy oil that would cloud in cold weather. That sounds like what you found with your canola source JohnO.

There is some standardized testing for CFPP, which has some comparative value, but...

No matter how good the standardized testing is, it doesn't tell you how cold you can run your canola (or soy) based biodiesel in your car. You bio is different than my bio. Your car is different than my car. If I pre-chill my bio and then syphon off the remaining clear fuel, it's going to do a lot better in cold weather since I have eliminated most of the high temp congealants.

Just as an example, I replaced the factory fuel filter on my VW, because it was in an inconvenient place. I couldn't easily insulate it or heat it. The new filter is now insulated, has the return fuel line (which is hot) wrapped around it, and has an electric heating element in there keeping it toasty, along with all the under hood fuel line. I also have a remote thermo sensor on the fuel filter, with a readout on my dash. If I can get the fuel out of the tank, I will never clog my fuel filter. I hope.

Your vehicle is undoubtedly different from mine, better or worse.

In theory, the CFPP is tested by pumping cold fuel through a fuel filter at rates similar to your car, while chilling the fuel, until the flow rate gets restricted a certain percentage.

HTH,

troy