heh guys,
I know this is in the wrong section but i wanted to get as much feedback as possible on this.
I stumbled upon water4gas website which describes how to use water somehow with 12v & a catalyst of baking soda the vapor gives off goes into the air intake and apparently increases fuel efficiency remarkably, this works on diesel and petrol engines. I downloaded their books from azureus (cheatin i know but heh its free) and having a look - it seems viable except i don't understand how it works.
Has anyone had any experience with this at all - was thinking bout experimenting but my vehicle isn't exactly old - i don't want to stuff things up with it.

cheers guys,

Al.

A neighbour is doing that very thing. It is an electrolisis method of extracting hydrogen and then having it venturi into the air intake high up on the intake manifold.
He did a two plate one and now is running a three plate; last I heard it was doing well. He'd tried a 5 plate but it was boiling the water and that is not what is wanted (apparently).
I can perhaps post more if I see him tomorow when I go make a couple batches of BD.

Perpetual motion

The alternator provides the electricity that electrolyze the water into H and O which is then fed to the engine to use as a fuel to turn the Alternator which provides the Electricity that electrolyze the water into H and O...

thanks old budy, good to see you haven't lost your wit.
So you know of this process? do you know how good it works? If it as good as the publication i have says then it would be good for all biodiesel makers out there they wouldn't have to make as much biodiesel to get from a to b. It states it can reduce fuel consumpion by up to 50% in both petrol & diesel.

Check the "renewable energy' section of this forum (HERE) for more recent discussions. one is here, I am becoming a believer, enough to build something for testing anyway.

I think the technology is real as I have heard many semi-drivers indicate they are getting up to even double the milage as without them but they are running commercial units that cost about $15,000 installed. There are many sellers of these things, I think most are bogue, a few seem reliable, they are mentioned in the verious other discussions. The water4fuel folks are mostly marketing hype in my opinion, heard them in a coast-to-coast radio interview recently, the main fairly young sounding website guy's background is sales and marketing, there business model is a bit "pyramiddy" for my taste, they only sell E-books with the same info you can find on the web for free, you have to buy material for the gas generators from someone else, then have yet another some-one-else local installer (they recommend) put it on your vehicle if you are not a do-it-yourself person.

I have a kit I bought online, and my stepdad build his own after looking at my kit.

We both experienced a fuel economy gain of no less than 20%, and in certain driving conditions can get as much as 40% gains.

Tilly, you aren't understanding the concept. The hydrogen and oxygen are not being used as fuel. They improve the combustion characteristics of whatever other fuel you are using. A very small amount of HHO gas lowers tha flashpoint of your Carbon based fuel, and gives you a cleaner and more complete burn so that significantly less unburned fuel leaves the combustion chamber. Vehicles with these systems can pass california emissions without a catalytic converter.

The level of improvement of fuel economy depends on many factors. But the more efficient your engine already is, the less improvment you'll get. Most vehicle engines waste about 1/3 of the fuel because of incomplete combustion. The hydrogen boosters can greatly reduce and maybe even eliminate that wasted fuel.

quote:

Most vehicle engines waste about 1/3 of the fuel because of incomplete combustion.

Wow, that's incredible, like not even a little bit.
My '89 diesel tests at 9ppm unburned hydrocarbons at the tailpipe. That's 0.009% unburned hydrocarbons, significantly different from 30% eh?
Thirty percent unburned diesel would be a solid black plume out the tailpipe at all times. Wouldn't somebody notice? Wouldn't 'most' diesels fail even basic emissions tests?
Somehow the numbers don't add up.
One can see why the claims are viewed with more than a little skepticism.

That's after your catalytic converter John. What's coming out of your combustion chamber before any exhaust pipe conversions?

No catalytic converter on my '89 3.4L TDI, nor any other Toyota diesel of that era that I know of. I doubt if catalytic converters were used on diesels until very recently, and even then it's not common.

Well, you probably know more about mechanics than I do, and I don't want to argue that. I just know that it works, and am satisfied with my $600 purchase. My Stepdad only used about $75 worth of parts to build his own, and he is also quite happy with the results. We're not selling anything, and if you search my posting history, you'll know I'm not a plant, and I have been posting on this forum for well over a year on WVO use with my Vegistroke system, and politics. I promote Vegistroke too because I am satisfied with my purchase from them as well.

Build your own, if it doesn't work, you've bought some hose, fittings, wire, fluid containers, Stainless steel electrodes, distilled water, and NaOH, which may also be used on your biofuel projects if this doesn't work out for you. You really have nothing to lose by trying it. I bet you'll be ecstatic, and you'll stretch your WVO supplies much further.

-Jack

I'd be much more likely to believe the claims if they were not so ridiculous. It would be extremely rare to find a vehicle spewing 30% unburned fuel out the tailpipe, it just does not happen normally.

I suspect the "30%" number is simply confusion. Of the potential energy in the fuel going into an engine, only about 30% gets turned into useable power. The other 70% still gets burned efficiently, but is lost as heat through the cooling system and out the exhaust pipe as hot gas.

A good diesel engine gets up to 40% efficiency. A good gas engine gets about 30%. It can be argued that the other 60-70% is "wasted", but that doesn't mean it wasn't burned.

Injecting a fast burning flammable mixture (like HHO) to aid combustion has been shown to increase fuel efficiency, using natural gas/propane. Those improvements seem to provide something closer to 5% improvements in large commercial power applications. Claims of 50% improvement are hard to believe though, and make me sceptical of anyone offering such.

Five percent improvement in fuel efficiency in a stationary engine at constant rpm seems believable. That's with providing additional fuel energy not generated by the engine. If this Browns Gas injection system was generating the electricity from the waste exhaust heat using something like the Peltier Effect then a few percent increase in efficiency might be possible.

The way this idea has been presented, hyped, and marketed, has SCAM written all over it.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I use a "Joe Cell"

The 'Joe Cell' was created sometime around 1993 by an Australian man known simply as Joe X for obvious reasons. Joe, while attempting to create a steam cell, stumbled onto an unexplained and previously unusable energy source called Orgone that has science somewhat baffled.
Joe's cell not only produced enough Orgone energy to run his car, but to run it without gasoline, without producing any exhaust and heat through combustion, thus no pollution.

Orgone energy is a type of sexual life-force energy that can be gathered, beamed, absorbed, generated, or redirected by conscious beings or orgone-based devices. Ultimately, it is an archetypal creative energy, meaning that although it has many manifestations from the psychological to physical, the underlying essence of 'negentropy' remains the same between them.

Psychologically, free flowing orgone is said to be conducive to a free-spirited personality, healthy sexuality, vitality, creativity, and dynamism.
Environmentally, ecosystems blessed with strong orgone energies are dense and lively. Physically, strong orgone is associated with negative ions, negentropic (self-organizing) systems, low pressure weather systems, water vapor concentrations, and a blue ionic glow.

I hope that has explained it clearly.

The main reason I'm hearing from the heavy truck people is to clean the combustion to pass e-testing more than any fuel gains.

As Tilly has pointed out the losses incurred making hydrogen are greater than the energy released burning the hydrogen,In short,It costs way more energy to make it than what you get out of it

No free rides

For anyone who wants to try it -

Several HHO generator designs here in Chapter 10 - http://free-energy-info.co.uk/

and another site - http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...lls-ect-5.html

I really want to try one of these out . I am now searching though my collection of stuff (known as junk to my wife) for materials ( may even wind up using using stainless or utensils or cups for anode /cathode ).

well, Toyota has launched a car with water as fuel. though it is sitill in conceptual stage but i believe that it is the future...but i have heard that the technology is pretty costly. isnt so?

I know several guys who built their own and had great success. One is still using his cell because he drives an older truck that does not have a mass airflow sensor. The other guys discovered that once their MAS detected less particulate in the exhaust stream it started to pump more gas. But until their MAS kicked their pumps into overdrive they reported one or two days of driving where the mileage was noticeably better. Now they're looking for override chips to bipass the MAS so they can keep driving with their HHO cells.

The one who is still using his cell also installed one in his motor home and reported great gains in mileage. He also noted that his truck runs cooler (???) and quieter. He claims - but I don't know if it's his experience or something he read - that the burning of hydrogen will also serve to burn out coking deposits. If this is true, then that alone would be a great reason to install hydro on WVO vehicles.

I have a cell made but not installed yet.

Dan

Hate to put the damper on all of this water talk! What these devices are (the few that are legitimate) are water injection units. Do they aid in combustion.....Yes! Do any of these make hydrogen gas????? Not a single design that I've seen. JC Whitney used to sell these units back in the 80s....mostly for performance cars, but they could be used on any combustion engine either in a vehicle or stationary. Most of the units I've seen aren't even water injection.....they are just a fancy looking contraption made usually out of home type water filters....like the ones used for an ice maker in a refrigerator. Take a look at most of the pictures of these HHO miracle devices and then look at water filters at Home Depot or Sears or any other place that sells these filters. Best bet......look up water injection.....see how they are built and if you are handy enough to install one of the kits....you certainly are handy enough to build a water injection unit.

Think about it.....if these things were really making hydrogen and oxygen separate.....how does a quart of water last for hundreds or thousands of miles?????

If you add 1 gallon of alcohol to 10 gallons of fuel....you'll get about 10% more mileage.....because of a miracle??? No, because you have 10% more fuel!!!!!

But yes.....water injection does work, improves mileage and combustion chambers stay cleaner....which also saves fuel.

underworld


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Tilly

The only thing that I remember about Orgone is a song called "Orgone Accumulator" by the band Hawkwind. One of Hawkwind's major influences and sometimes collaborator is science fiction and fantasy writer Michael Moorcock.



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