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Anyone know how to remove ethanol from gasoline?
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Many small engines are damaged by running gasoline mixed with a small amount of ethanol, the fuel which is everywhere in the USA now.
A number of friends are complaining about repair bills on equipment recently purchased. Companies are refusing to cover under warranty because the the warranty is "voided" by the gasoline/ethanol fuel.


David Norwood

2001 F350 7.3 DI purchased new by me and it is the first DI experimented with and talked about on this forum.

Updated 1/2011 Alternative Fuel User Since 2003-vo is always in my fuel. Only one fuel tank. GPI/CIM-TEK spin on filterhead and 10 micron filter. Superchip. Hutch and Harpoon mods 2010. Diesel inline filter between tank and Airtex E2236 fuel pump (rated to 110 psi).Fuel pressure gauge. HOH for fuel line heat from tank to 12v lift pump. Two 12v 36" heaters, one before add on filter and one before OEM filter.

Cool weather mixes updated 2010. 100% vo to 70°. 66% to 35°. 50% to 10°.
 
Location: Upstate South Carolina , USA | Registered: December 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Mix water with the petrol and the ethanol will fall out with the water.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
Mix water with the petrol and the ethanol will fall out with the water.

Great thinking Wink

Sometimes I cant see the wood for the trees Roll Eyes

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jehu,
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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sinbad

Does it need to be mixed aggresively and drained or what is the more effective procedure?


David Norwood

2001 F350 7.3 DI purchased new by me and it is the first DI experimented with and talked about on this forum.

Updated 1/2011 Alternative Fuel User Since 2003-vo is always in my fuel. Only one fuel tank. GPI/CIM-TEK spin on filterhead and 10 micron filter. Superchip. Hutch and Harpoon mods 2010. Diesel inline filter between tank and Airtex E2236 fuel pump (rated to 110 psi).Fuel pressure gauge. HOH for fuel line heat from tank to 12v lift pump. Two 12v 36" heaters, one before add on filter and one before OEM filter.

Cool weather mixes updated 2010. 100% vo to 70°. 66% to 35°. 50% to 10°.
 
Location: Upstate South Carolina , USA | Registered: December 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The amount of water is not critical as long as it is enough to absorb the percentage of alcohol, slosh it around a bit and leave it over night, the gasoline will be floating on top of the water the next day and there will be a sharp seperation between the two. Do this in a clear container and it is easy to drain off the water from the bottom or syphon off the gas from the top, probably can even pour off the gas but you may have to do it a couple times to insure no water comes out with it.

You can do the same thing with E85 to remove the gasoline and recover the water/ethanol to use in a water injection setup.

quote:
A number of friends are complaining about repair bills on equipment recently purchased.


Sure don't understand why?

Are these "recent purchases" of old used equipment, anything made since about 2000 should be compatable with alcohol. I have been running my old 1984 International Cub garden tractor on E85 for the last 4 years with absolutely no problems. This 12 HP air cooled Kohler engine has an adjustable main jet on the carborator, I had to tweek the adjustment about 3/4 of a turn to run the E85. The engine starts fine and runs cooler along with having WAY more power. It also runs FAR cleaner now, it used to burn a good bit of oil but I have not had to add any oil between the once a year oil changes for the last couple of years.

I have seen some fuel problems with very old equipment, I recently visited a military surplus sales yard and they were complaining that the current gas/alcohol blends were causing leaks in the old equipments fuel tanks, likely due to dissolving the old varnish and crud that had clogged the pinholes that had rusted through the tanks years ago? There would also likely eventually be problems with the older rubber items like fuel pump diaphragms, fuel hoses, and carburetor gasketing on the old equipment but this should not be a problem with new equipment.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've been running whatever fuel comes from the pumps for years now, in small engines as well as vehicles. We've at least had winter alcohol in Oregon for 20+ years, I'm not sure what the dates were, or whether we have it year around now, but it isn't a big deal.

I run my Ford Ranger on E-85 whenever I can find it, but the actual fuel concentration would thus vary tremendously.

With my old '84 Renault Encore, it had run about 5 years before getting its first taste of a fuel/alcohol mix. I believe it got a clogged fuel injector, or something.

That was actually common at the time in the late 80's. The problem was that the alcohol stirred up sludge in the fuel system that had been laying there for years. Somewhat like adding biodiesel to an old car for the first time. Perhaps this also happened to some extent in the filling station tanks.

Anyway, after that first hit of sludge-related issues, the problems went away and never came back.
 
Location: Oregon | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Chain saws, lawn mowers, and trimmers so far. Each purchased new. I would not think old used would have a warranty.(Then again, maybe 30 days).

Removing the ethanol.
Pour a half gallon gasoline with a half gallon of water and mix well. Separate the next day?


David Norwood

2001 F350 7.3 DI purchased new by me and it is the first DI experimented with and talked about on this forum.

Updated 1/2011 Alternative Fuel User Since 2003-vo is always in my fuel. Only one fuel tank. GPI/CIM-TEK spin on filterhead and 10 micron filter. Superchip. Hutch and Harpoon mods 2010. Diesel inline filter between tank and Airtex E2236 fuel pump (rated to 110 psi).Fuel pressure gauge. HOH for fuel line heat from tank to 12v lift pump. Two 12v 36" heaters, one before add on filter and one before OEM filter.

Cool weather mixes updated 2010. 100% vo to 70°. 66% to 35°. 50% to 10°.
 
Location: Upstate South Carolina , USA | Registered: December 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Somethings not right here, everything built in the last ten years will have no problems with ethanol blends.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Could the fuel be wet. One of the issues oil companies have with ethanol blends is the way it will absorb water from condensation formed in storage tanks.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
Could the fuel be wet.
Very likely the cause of the problems. E85 can absorb and hold a lot of water. The solution would be quite corrosive to fuel system components, especially where dissimilar metals are used.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The problem is that the oil mixture falls out of suspension in gasahol (gasoline alchol mix). There was a discussion on this about 2 months ago. If my memory is correct, someone mixed gas for their chansaw and left it out in a clear container and the next morning, the oil had fallen to the bottom of the mix, so basically that means that the two cycle engine is not getting any lubrication. No lubrication, no warranty.


Randy H.
 
Location: Monroe, LA | Registered: April 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The discussion a few months ago was using E85 with 2 cycle oil.

The conclusion was that Veggie Oil and Biodiesel would stay in solution with E85 much better than the 2 cycle oils. I assume the Veggie provided adequate lubrication.

E5 or E10 shouldn't be an issue with the 2 cycle oils though.

Here is the E85 & 2 Cycle discussion:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ev...=845104532#845104532
 
Location: Oregon | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Tim
Have you followed up using a vo & gasoline(E10 or E85) blend with your chainsaw?


I did editing

Tim c cook
member
Posted 27 August 2009 10:50 PM
A while back I tried using E85 in an old chainsaw, I blew the rod almost instantly.....

I got tired of arguing with a stubborn chainsaw..., I used a clear 2-liter soda bottle, much to my horror the 2 cycle oil started to settle out of the E85 almost instantly, within 5 minutes almost all the oil had settled out.

>>> I repeated this with E85 and clean used veg and the oil has not settled out at all but it has only been a few hours... I don't expect this eth/veg blend to separate, I will give it a try in the saw and see if it survives. <<<


David Norwood

2001 F350 7.3 DI purchased new by me and it is the first DI experimented with and talked about on this forum.

Updated 1/2011 Alternative Fuel User Since 2003-vo is always in my fuel. Only one fuel tank. GPI/CIM-TEK spin on filterhead and 10 micron filter. Superchip. Hutch and Harpoon mods 2010. Diesel inline filter between tank and Airtex E2236 fuel pump (rated to 110 psi).Fuel pressure gauge. HOH for fuel line heat from tank to 12v lift pump. Two 12v 36" heaters, one before add on filter and one before OEM filter.

Cool weather mixes updated 2010. 100% vo to 70°. 66% to 35°. 50% to 10°.
 
Location: Upstate South Carolina , USA | Registered: December 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I never did follow up, I was having problems with the chainsaw not running well and it appears the points in my old chainsaw in Illinois have worn down, the saw won't even start now with a normal gas/oil mix and a shot of ether, I am spending the winter in Arizona so did not have a need to cut firewood this fall so I did not pull the saw apart to get it running again.

I never had any problem with fuel/oil seperation using todays normal E10 gasoline, it is the E85 that causes seperation of petro-oils.

I did recently run across the soda bottle of E85/vegoil blend, I had forgotten why I made up the blend til now, it had NOT seperated. My saws are old so this mix was a 16-1 fuel/oil ratio. I will do another 16-1 soda bottle test here in AZ just to be sure, I think I saw an old chainsaw belonging to a relative in the shed, might even venture running the blend in that saw if I can get it to run.

From reading, it looks like some states will likely allow a 20% ethanol blend to be sold as RUG in the not-so-far future, Don't know if this percentage will be a problem, guess I could do some blending of E10 RUG and E85 to get a E20 blend to try, something else to play with.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank You Keelec, I could not find the discussion pertaining to the issue, but I knew I had read it somewhere.


Randy H.
 
Location: Monroe, LA | Registered: April 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Da Water Man:
Thank You Keelec, I could not find the discussion pertaining to the issue, but I knew I had read it somewhere.

You're welcome...
I read it too, but hadn't made the possible connection between Alcohol and 2-cycle engines so it is good to recap.

And thanks to Tim for the followup.

I always fight with some search engines, especially this one, but this time it came to the top of the list.

---- Clifford -----
 
Location: Oregon | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Da Water Man:
The problem is that the oil mixture falls out of suspension in gasahol ...

The Stihl people know this. They are now denying payment of warranty work/parts on saws if they are found to have gasoline containing any alcahols in them. Found this out today from friend who owns saw shop nearby. He has repaired one saw with this problem, sent it out, owner brought it back locked up again after using it for a few hours. Stihl man told friend about all of this fuel/ethanol seperation mess.

Not all equiptment made in last 10 years will hold up to ethanol fuels like one other post suggests. Heck, I remeber just one hurricaine ago how many people bought those Chinese generators and within 48hrs after first startup they were back at store wanting to stomp a mudhole in the salesman. I helped several of those people get their units running until I ran out of spare kits that I keep on my truck. Bosko
 
Registered: January 21, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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strange how "old" things cannot handle gasohol but my old gasoline cars could (1985 opel manta/1986 ford fiesta/1988 ford sierra/1988 mazda 626/wv golf 1985/toyota carina 1988)not to mention those newer cars i have driven many miles too

i have always ran 25% e85 75% gasohol in my cars that had carburettor or old mechanical fuel injection no problem over atleast 20 000km (some cars were drive more than 60 000km) other than needing to change fuel filter on some of them

in those cars that had lambda they ran best with 40-50% e85
exception for the vw audi seat with 1.8 single point injection engines they ran 70-75%e85 and loved it


why did i do it? since i drive a LOT saving money is an issue
(love vegoil if i only knew that sooner)


and NONE of my cars had ANY issues with ANY leaking fuel lines or blown gaskets or anything


_________________________
BMW 525tds-93 with nice 143Hp 7litre/100km (34 USmpg) (trying some low blends even in this cold months)

about 75% wvo during summer
1-1,5ml acetone 1ml turps per litre fuel

"wvo blending"Wink

 
Location: skaune/scania (scandinavia) | Registered: February 29, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Most small engines manufacturers have NOT FIGURED OUT HOW to make ethanol compatible engines yet.

I hate ethanol. I hate it badly. it costs me hundreds of dollars in fuel pumps when we "switched" to E10.

7 fuel pumps to be exact the one in my van was $140 stinking dollars $1100 was the quote to install it. Thankfully I am pretty DIY handy and managed to do it myself.

2 jeeps 2 minivans a pickup and 2 vans all needed new fuel pumps withing 6 months of switching to E10.

the engines themselves run "ok" on E10 (except the motorcycle my 82 goldwing runs like crap on it)

My lawn equipment will NEVER see E10. I remove the ethanol before putting it in my small engines.

You want to see why I REALLY hate E10? I used to drive my 96 Plymouth Voyager minivan. LOVE that van. nice and comfy great cloud ride 28mpg with the air on !! Wonderful wonderful van.

its rusting in our yard at work now. here is why.

I drive 40,000 miles a year. that minivan costs me $5357 a year in fuel for 1428 gallons of fuel (approximately)

When we switched to E10 my Fuel economy INSTANTLY dropped to 19mpg. I freaked. (at the time I did not know about the switch to E10) I checked and tested everything I could find NOTHING wrong so I just started REPLACING stuff. two wheel bearings "sounded" like they might be scraping so I replaced them. I replaced the calipers and drums thinking maybe they were sticking replaced the O2 sensor was bout to try replacing the CAT.

anything that could cause such a drop in FE. my mechanic was baffled. we could NOT figure out why the MPG's were SO incredibly low. MY CLUBWAGON gets 19mpg (not anymore 13 now)

then I filled up on gas again and BANG its 28mpg again ?? what the heck? did this a couple times SOME tanks were 19mpg some were 28mpg. We were starting to thinking flaky ECU and then I started ONLY using the gas stations where I filled up and got 28mpg and I KEPT getting 28mpg.

I drive up once day for gas and notice this big new sticker on the pump. This gas may contain upto 10% ethanol. I asked whats that all about? He explained ethanol to me I said No thanks I don't want any of that and drove away.

it just HIT ME what could be causing my fuel economy drop. Alcohol.

eventually it came down to ONE STATIONS left with E0. then my FE went back to 19mpg. I went back and asked the guy. hey when did you guys get Ethanol blends? he said last week how did you know? I said cause my fuel economy is CRAP again. (I burn a tank a week so I fill up weekly)

NO more E0. all E10. now I never get 28mpg unless I go out of state and get lucky and find an E0 station.

At that time I was forced to PARK my beloved minivan and purchase a Geo Metro. 94 XFI.

Here is why. 1428 gallons costs $5357 per year to drive 40,000 miles.

at 19mpg on E10 I now need 2105 gallons of gasoline or $7894 per year !!!!!!!!!

that is an EXTRA $2538 dollars a YEAR in fuel costs. I am sorry I just can't afford that. and I can not afford a new car. so now I am stuck in a tiny uncomfortable NO AIR (working on that today think generator on trailer) Geo Metro. (which I love btw even on E10 I get 54mpg)

but its cleaner but it reduces our need for foreign oil? you kidding right?

so the math. I would now burn an EXTRA 677 gallons a year in fuel EVEN IF WE SUBTRACT the ethanol from that thats 1894.5 gallons of GASOLINE or 466.5 gallons MORE GASOLINE than I was burning before PLUS the ethanol.

its WORSE for the environment. it makes MORE pollution it requires us to buy MORE gasoline and MORE foreign oil (over 60% of the cars on the road are over 10 years old and will SUFFER greatly in fuel economy from E10 usage)

it makes farmers produce less food (they make more money on inedible corn for ethanol production) uses vast quantities of fresh water and COST US MONEY. lots and lots of money.

only 3 entities win with ethanol.

Corn/Ethanol produces
Goverment (taxes)
Big Oil (you need MORE gasoline now)

Us lowly scum down here get anal raped.

can you tell I really hate ethanol?

some more examples? I made my own E0 for my geo a few tanks. gained 9mpg.

My JEEP went from 24mpg to 17mpg
My Clubwagon went from 19mpg to 13mpg
My other jeep went from 21mpg to 16mpg
Pop's minivan and Mom's both went from 24 to 18-19

I have yet to find a single car that foes not lose MORE than 10% of its fuel economy with E10.

removal is easy but a PAIN. you need to be CAREFUL what container you use the Ethanol water mix you get from this is EXTREMELY aggressive toward most plastics.

5 gallons of gasoline 1 gallons of water. STIR like crazy. let sit stir let sit. wait till the gas is CRYSTAL CLEAR drain off the water ethanol on the bottom and what you have left is pure gas.

BE WARNED this is LOW OCTANE GAS probably 82-84 octane. Ethanol is VERY high octane so they use lower octane gasoline and BOOST it with the ethanol (and of course pass NONE of those savings onto us)

so far my geo and my law equipment do not seem to care. if your worried use a mid grade gas so after the drop you end up near regular grade octane levels.

AV fuel is ethanol free (if your a pilot ethanol WILL KILL YOU as it freezes in your fuel lines of kills your engine and you plummit to the ground screaming in a fiery death. yeah its bad.

but its 100 octane and my local source wants $8 freaking dollars a gallon.

for law stuff this process works. for a SUPER high efficient car like a geo it "can" work but its a pain.

but anything else your would be spending too much time doing it and questionable legalities storing it.
 
Registered: June 28, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just joined and read Nerys problems with E10. I finally caught on to the same thing happening with my vehicles. I'm going to try the water and gas thing to remove the ethanol. There's a manufacture out there called Mr. Funnel that makes a funnel that will separate water from gasoline. They cost about $60 for 12L/minute flow rate. I'm hoping that this will take care of the ethanol and water together? I actually have a small one for my boat and it does work.
You mentioned lowered octane level. Did some reading a few years ago and found a couple of blogs by a Louis Lapointe that has been using pure acetone in small quantities to improve his mileage. I tried it a few years back and it worked. I was driving a GMC Jimmy (2000) and raised hwy mileage from 23 to 29mpg (imperial). I stopped using it because heard stories that it played havoc with seals and gaskets. Not so sure that it was that bad now as ethanol can't be any better. Supposedly acetone is used in most of the octane boasters sold at performance shops. Anyway do a search on Louis Lapointe acetone and read up. He recommends about 1-2 oz per 10 gal. I've read a few other posts where people have used 2.5oz/10 gal and it seems to work well. I'm going to try the ethanol separation and add the acetone. If it works will try to get my SUV back up to the high 20's in hwy mpg again sans ethanol and do my part with a cleaner burning engine and better mileage than advocated by our govt's so called eco friendly ethanol mandate.
Lot's of skeptics out there and many who go with the flow and won't do anything about it. I agree on the gov't, oil companies and growers making the $$$ and draining our pockets with a "magic elixir" that actually costs us more. Ripping off consumers is big business all over the world, doesn't matter where you live. Just look how big the business has grown since Al Gore's infamous PowerPoint presentation on global warming. Probably the biggest scam to hit our planet, carbon tax and all. Sorry about the rant, that's a topic for another forum. Smile
 
Registered: October 30, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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