Hello All,

I would like to hear from anyone that has experienced damage to a diesel engine or injection system from running biodiesel. My personal experience with Biodiesel (B20) has been very good. (see details below)

But after discussing Biodiesel use with Engineers from major Auto manufactures & Fuel injection systems they claim that anyone running soy-based biodiesel over B5 is likely to experience damage. They Clim that Biodiesel from Rapeseed is much more resistent to oxidation and therefore does not damage the engine or injection system.

I want to see if there is how many real-world experiences to confirm thier statements.

If you have experienced damage please include
- the make and model and year of the vehicle
- the number of miles driven with Biodiesel
- Total miles on the vehicle
- What ratio of Biodiesel (B2, B20, B100 etc)
- Whether the Biodiesel was homemade or purchased from a retailer.
- Cost to fix the damage (if available)

If you have not had any known damage from running Biodiesel feel free
to include the same info as above for comparisions.

I promise to post summarized results from all results collected.


My personal experience,

- 1999 Mercedes E300TD
- 16K miles with B20
- Purchased from a retailer
- 112K miles total on the Car
- No known damage


Thanks, Ron

Wouldn't matter if there were a failure on biodiesel. I can also cite examples of engine damage or problems running pure petro diesel.

Over at tdiclub.com they've yet to have a known, conclusive bd caused failure. I know of one alleged TDI fuel pump failure, but the mechanic's
assesment was dubious. He claimed the pump failed due to lack of lubrication (on B50).

I have had only one failure. I snapped a snub shaft on a DBII IP because I failed to switch over to light oil before shutting down. I cranked it up and it fired then stalled immediately. The fuel shutoff solenoid has been jimmied permanently open. I am currently preparing to change the shaft and get the engine running again.
ITs a '83 6.2 with a bazillion miles on it. It ran unwashed BD in the light oil tank and everything in the heavy oil tank.
I'd like to know what these engineers actually said and what proof they have for their statements. I have never experienced any problems with BD. So how do they justify the egg on their faces?
DF

I recently had a fuel cut-off valve fail due to the rubber end of the plunger eroding away. But as I don't know what it was like before I started using bio (up to B100) I can't be sure of the cause. Cost of repair ? Don't know that either as I replaced it with a valve from a spare pump. Let's say 15 Pound UK.
Otherwise no signe of damage to anything.
regards
dva

Well i had some pretty bad luck first time out. I still haven't wrapped my head around what happened so who knows. Definately a fuel contamination problem though. It's tough, soon as a fuel injection shop hears the word biodiesel their brains shut off, conclusions assumed, can't get any real theory out of them.

Here's my story. I have an 85 Ford F250, 100K miles. I ran comercial B10 for a couple of months. Got some homebrew, tossed it in the front tank. Probably B80-90. As soon as i switched tanks i noticed unreasonable smoking. The truck had never done that before. It ran for about another 20 miles.

The tear-down revealed that the fuel filter had gummed up. This was mid summer. The fuel injection shop says i had an algae bloom. The pump was ruined by being run without lubrication. The fuel at the IP smelled more like turpentine than bio, petro, or gasoline. It's almost like someone spiked my tank.

Repair cost was around $800, with professional labor. My working theory is that the bioD i put in there festered into an algae bloom. algae gummed the filter. A light fraction of the fuel made it past the filter and ran my engine, while the lubricating fractions of the fuel were blocked by the filter?

I really don't have enough evidence to convict the Biodiesel, circumstantial. But the onset of problems was immediate and the demise rapid. I would like to have the fuel i pumped out of my tank tested but have no idea where to take it. Any ideas? Northern California would be best, don't think the post office would like me shipping this stuff.

Now i use a biocide and run commercial B10. I'll go back to homebrew as soon as i can get my second truck running, not risking my livelyhood for the environment again.

-Steve

This would seem to back up the suggestion that every batch of bio/waste oil or whatever that you put into your tank should also be put into a glass jar and left on your window sill in order to watch how it behaves.

It is also good policy to have a pressure gauge on the inlet of your IP in order to notice any change in the inlet pressure of fuel into your IP as a means of monitoring filter problems.

A sediment glass bowled CAV fuel filter will also alert you to any pending fuel issues.

I have heard of piston damage to new Mercedes vehicles, being caused allegedly by left-over catalyst in BioDiesel or maybe the excess methanol.--( Sounds to be unwashed, possibly with excess Phosphor levels as well)--Do any small to medium BioDiesel makers supply unwashed fuel?

I can neither confirm or dispute this info at present

BMWK1 hope this helps. I almost don't want to post it because I AM a big biodiesel advocate, however here is my experience.

1999 E300 TD just like yours. If you research these cars, you'll know that between average 80-100k the fuel pumps start leaking on the top where there is a rubber o-ring and copper crush washer. It's happening on all of them. In any case, I have been running b20 in the E300 since 2001 exclusively, a total of 39k miles today. The car now has 55k on it. Well last week I discovered my garage absolutely reeked, and there is fuel leaking out of the top of my IP. This is way early for this problem to be happening. Guess what? Natural rubber o-rings were completely degraded/eaten up. I don't even want to know how many more seals in our vehicles are made of rubber. A lot of us read articles saying that vehicles made after 96 had synthetic hoses/seals, but I have a feeling this might only have been VW's and perpetuated on Fred's. Who knows on that one - I'm just saying that in our particular E300's, not sure if it's a good idea. Now I have run higher blends, but only for 2-3 tanks ever...once or twice b50-b75, and once b95 on a long road trip, on which I burned that entire tank and refilled before stopping for the day. Every drop of bio I"ve used has been either World Energy or Griffin commercially sold ASTM spec bio.

I ran b100 exclusively in my 2002 VW TDI Jetta with zero issues.

I've run up to b10 in my 04 Cummins and it does quiet the clatter a bit, but that's as far as I've gone.

At this point, the E300 is getting an exclusively steady diet of 50 cetane min BP Supreme.

quote:

---

Originally posted by High Compression II:
I have heard of piston damage to new Mercedes vehicles, being caused allegedly by left-over catalyst in BioDiesel or maybe the excess methanol.--( Sounds to be unwashed, possibly with excess Phosphor levels as well)--Do any small to medium BioDiesel makers supply unwashed fuel?

I can neither confirm or dispute this info at present

---

Someone on the biodiesel business yahoo group claims to ship ASTM spec biodiesel without a wash.

Lightman, I doubt the o-ring was made from natural rubber

I do know that using an o-ring as a seal for a still for recovering methanol from the glycere soon damages the o-ring.

Rev Tilly KE (Actor)

While I don't know if it's natural or what kind of rubber it is, I do know that it IS rubber and it did disintegrate at an accelerated rate.

I've been making and using biodiesel for a while,
but am spooked right now. My '97 GM 6.5L TD may need an injection pump. I've had this truck 3 months/3k miles, running about 35% self-made fuel (prev car is '83 300D).

The truck started getting poor mpg this month and did a bit of hesitation/rough running, then it did the PMD dance (lie down dead on floor, no twitching). Swapped PMD and fixed that..
Its also asserting 2 obd codes:
P0251 "injector fuel pump metering circuit"
P0370 "timing reference, high resolution signal"


Are there any studies made where a teardown and photo is made of high mileage, biod-only systems?

Would appreciate any contact with direct experience in GM 6.2 or 6.5 (electronic)
systems

The 6.5 has a common problem of the fuel pump and/or fuel pump electrontics dying (unrelated to biodiesel, they just have a history of dying).

Oh no, of course biodiesel could have nothing to do with it..

quote:

Originally posted by mtushmoo:


I can neither confirm or dispute this info at present

Someone on the biodiesel business yahoo group claims to ship ASTM spec biodiesel without a wash.[/QUOTE]


I think you're thinking of Dick's plant. He sold one around here and we tested fuel from it and it failed ASTM in a few areas, not sure if that's specific to washing or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Forrest:
The 6.5 has a common problem of the fuel pump and/or fuel pump electrontics dying (unrelated to biodiesel, they just have a history of dying).

My boyfriend has one of these engines, and in the original owner's paperwork for the vehicle, it shows the fuel injection pump self-destructing (on regular diesel) within the first 10,000 miles of the van's life while still under warranty, and again after that also while under warranty (and also on regular diesel).

sounds like a GMC 6.5- specific problem. I think i'ts well documented elsewhere too, all on diesel, and not specific to biodiesel.

I think there's a GMC forum at oilburners.net, you could ask there about experiences with fuel injection pumps and the pump mounted drivers- the electronics you're referring to (which really isn't fuel related- the PMD self-destructs because of the awful heat where they originally located it, which I know that SKK already knows)

My pump tanked at 92k. Replaced under warranty. They of course did not know I was running BD. Do NOT run unwashed bd in a GM with the electronic pump. They do not like the methanol. It destroys sensors in the pump. I have been running washed since replacement with no problems.

Most, if not all '96-'99 e300's will develop a fuel leak at the injection pump at around 100k miles - there are some copper crush washers and o-rings that go bad. Mine failed early which I attribute to biodiesel use. It's had a steady diet of b20-b30 since 2001 - and just developed a leak at 52k miles - way too early.

97 dodge, 210k miles. Last 110k miles on bio. B100 when temp allows. Absolutely no problems. I ran washed the first 50k or so and unwashed since. No discernable difference. And you won't have to worry about wash water, drying, water in fuel, algae can't grow in it, etc.
John

This is how it works

If something breaks and you are running normal petro-diesel it is just bad luck.

If something breaks and you are using biodiesel, the biodiesel caused the breakage.

I had two flat tyres, a blown headlight, and a burned out alternator which was directly attributable to using biodiesel.

And the front offside turn-signal lense fell off not two weeks ago because of my former use of bodiesel