We finally have an article at biodieselcommunity.org for the best homebrew Acid-base process so far, Dave Kenny's Process:

http://biodieselcommunity.org/acidbase/


Mark

Hi
thanks, very helpfull. what can i do with the resulting acid/methanol?, can it be re-usd how is it disposed of?
Neil

domusbiofuel,

I take the stuff that I drain out and distill the methanol out. I then reused this methanol in the next batch.

I also mix the glycerin from base stages with what's drained from the acid stages to neutralize the acid. then distill the mix.

-dkenny

hi dave
this is really helpfull. is there a difference between KOH and KAOH with acid esterification?
can i use anything other than sulphuric(cheaper)? can the acid be re-used? also ive heard that high ffa oil is solid, mine is 54% but still liquid, but it is in the sun all day, would it go solid in the cold? this oil has never been cooked it is a by-product of sunflower production
neil

not sure what you meanby KAOH..maybe NaOH..instead..if so yes but the math changes..specifically the 0.2 multiplier..read some the other thread in this section.

if you can extract the acid and purify to 95% or better then you should be able to reuse it. I don't know how to do this.

sulphuric acid is one of cheapest acid around.

I think the higher the hydrogenation the more solid the oil. I not sure if higher FFA's would also make it more solid. I doubtfully of this connection

-dkenny

Kenny
sorry i did mean NaOH.
have you heard of novozym, any comments?
Neil

no worries I have trouble typging too..

never heard of the other stuff..

-dkenny

dkenny
what percentage of biofuel can i expect from your calculations for the 54% FFA acid oil?
Neil

if all goes well and you get to 3 KOH you'll get about 90% yield.

-dkenny

thanks
can you tell me the difference between high FFA caused by overcooking and that caused by the production method of high FFA sunflower acid oil?, i guess in the process of making edible sunflower oil they remove the saturated fat, is this what FFA is, saturated fat?
Neil

while I'm not 100% sure..
I don't there is a connection between saturated fats and high FFA. since you're is liquid and most saturated fats are solid. I suspect that you just have high FFA oil. unsaturated.

-dkenny

I think i just discover something important about acid stage.

For my high titration 44 Naoh WVO, i have to do 2 acid stages.

i had 2 successful batch, first acid stage of both batch alway reduce to Titration 12 Naoh and it stop lowering.

First acid stage:
batch A: 8ml sulfuric acid + 12% menthanol
batch B: 11ml sulfuric acid + 12% menthanol

both end up at around 12 titration and won't go lower. Notice batch B is using more sulfuric acid but it doesn't help at all. This makes me think that when we dealing with High FFA, it's not only the sulfuric acid that matters, the amount of menthanol also matters! Why? Read below

In the second acid stage:
Batch A: I drain the whole 12% menthanol, then add in 3ml sulfuric acid+ 12% menthanol again and proccess

Batch B: I just drain the 6% methanol, then add in 3ml sulfuric acid + 6% menthanol and process

Now at the second acid stage, for batch A i got the wvo down to titration of 3! but for batch B i only got the titration down to 9!

Why do i think the menthanol matters? Well In batch A i actually use total 11ml sulfuric acid in 2 acid stages but 24% methanol and got titration 3, but for batch B i used 11ml sulfuric acid in first acid stage with 12% methanol drain 6% methanol, then add in 3ml sulfuric acid with 6% methanol with titration only down to 9. Do you guys see what i am trying to show? There is obviously not enough methanol in batch B second acid stage to bring the titration down to 3, this makes me think that there is also not enough methanol in batch B first acid stage, maybe if i add enough methanol in the batch B first acid stage, it can be lower to titration 3 without doing the second acid stage.


Anyway, do you guys think i can reduce from 2 acid stage down to 1 acid stage by going a batch with 24% methanol+ 12ml sulfuric acid (instead of 12% methanol)?

Do 2 acid stage alway use more methanol?

I wonder if anyone can explain to me what is the role of the methanol during the acid stage?

pirocop,

past a certain point 2 stage or more will be required. unless you want to use an even greater amount of methanol.

the methanol converts the FFA to methyl esters just like the base reaction. only during the acid stage the water created slows/stops the process. so more methanol will push the reaction further. since we're using acid we don't make soap.

I wonder what would happen in case B if you used 12% methanol in the 2nd acid stage?

-dkenny

i am pretty sure in case B second acid stage, if i add in 12% menthanol instead of 6%..then it's going to be reduce to titration 3...

kinda obviously the case B second acid stage 2 got not enough methanol.

if you have enough oil that titrates that bad..
try something

instead of going to 6% to 12% go to 9%..
the idea is to use less methanol since expensive.

remember if you use too much methanol the mix might float at the end of the 2nd stage. at this point you really want this to sink, unless you can remove it from the top.

-dkenny

Dkenny

for the acid stage, do I have to maintain the temperature of 130F at whole time? or it is not needed?

its better if you can but not absolutely required. I have run some without adding heat, but temps were in the 80's. it just make a long process take longer.


-dkenny

JTF.org has had this infor for at least two years. Not that that is important. The greatest advantage is that the acid stage converts the FFAs to ethyl/methyl esters, thereby removing the possibility of making soap. Soaps are made from FFAs in the presence of a strong base AND water. If the oil is well filtered and dryed the acid/base process will produce more fuel without making soap. Using the acid/base process, you can actually make diesel fuel directly from animal fats. I no longer care whether the oil is great, or simply oil, it will make diesel fuel that runs in my '85 Ford.

quote:

JTF.org has had this

Lots of what is on JTF is either out of date or wrong. There is some good info mixed in there too.

BDycus,

maybe..but they don't have a formula for converting FFA to BD using acid esterification and transeftericication..Alex's fool proof method is a JOKE! sorry but I have read it..

gee for the last 2 years only..please read the acid recipe section in this forum..its been 2.5 yrs since I posted my method.


like Andrew said...

-dkenny