I AM HAVING PROBLEM OF HIGH PPM OF PHOSPHOROUS IN DEGUMMED OIL THOUGH BEFORE DEGUMMING WE ARE ADDING HOT WATER , H3PO4 AND CAUSTIC SOLUTION.CAN ANY ONE HELP ME OUT

Tonight I'll check my copy of Oil Seed Crops of the World, which might help. What kind of oil are you processing; Canola/Rape, Soy, or something else? Are you doing an acid degumming, or hot water degumming? With a high phosphorus level I assume you're using hot-pressed or solvent extracted oil. Is this true?

We're here to help.
Cheers,
JohnO

quote:

Originally posted by Faheem:
I AM HAVING PROBLEM OF HIGH PPM OF PHOSPHOROUS IN DEGUMMED OIL THOUGH BEFORE DEGUMMING WE ARE ADDING HOT WATER , H3PO4 AND CAUSTIC SOLUTION.CAN ANY ONE HELP ME OUT

Don't shout we can hear you!!!!

A few questions that if you answer may point us in the right direction.

1) Is this the first time you have tried it or have you had success before.
2) Are you operating a continuous or batch process.
3) What order did you do things and what temperatures and residence times did you use.
4) What type of mixer are you using for the phosphoric acid stage. It needs to be a fairly high shear for any reaction to work well, this is more critical in a continuous plant.
5) Are you using Centrifuge(s)or other means for separation.
6) As Johno said what type of oil are you processing and what is the phosphorus content in and out.
7) What percentage Phosphoric Acid (what strength) did you use.
8) What percentage Caustic (what strength) did you use.
9) Are you bleaching the oil.

If you answer these it may highlight something that needs changing.

Realy did u hear my shouting
here are my answer:
1)Before only i was using hot water for degumming purposes(hydratable Phos) for Soy and Canola crude.
2)My operation is continous operation of extracting oil from soy or canola flakes then to distillation after degumming and then to dryer and lastly storage tank.
3)Oil after distillation with 100°C goes to tank with a residence time of 20 minutes and then to online static mixer where water at 95°C mixes with an oil and then fed to degumming reactor with residence time 30min. lastly the oil from degummed reactor goes to separator and then to dryer.
4)Phosphous solution is just adding in tank before online static mixer.
5)Yes: RSE-150 westfalia
6)Oil processed is Soy and Canola but problem is comin in Canola.P in Crude is 400ppm. Hydrated P must be below 180ppm.
7)30% solution with 85%conc of acid
8)1.2 Be' or 2% of cautic
9)No its done in the refining section.

My initial thought would be that the mixing of the phosphoric acid is not sufficient. It is normal to have a high shear mixer before the retention mixer/ reactor, then the centrifuge.

If you look at the links you can see the acid degumming step (page 10 in the westfalia brochure), there is a flowsheet showng the basic setup, you can see the acid is injected before a mechanically driven mixer then water is added (if required) then into the reactor.
http://www.aocs.org/archives/analysis/pdfs/logan_andrew.pdf http://www.westfalia-separator.com/downloads/brochures/Speiseoel_engl.pdf Remember the links are to a sales brochures by Alfa Laval and westfalia but the flowsheets are useful if a little basic.

You may also be running a little hot if you are at 100C when the phosphoric acid is mixed is it possible to run a little lower say 70 to 80C max.

What % dosing rate are you using for the phosphoric acid. Without a high shear mixer it may be doing nothing anyway but it may be another source of problems.

Where in the process are you measuring the phosphorus, if there is anything that involves high temperature like the deodoriser and you are overdosing Phosphoric then it tends to burn and then shows up on the phosphorus test anyway.

Sorry if you already know all of this.

thanx fuzzang
my phosphoric dosing is @ 85lit/hr, caustic 60lit/hr while the crude oil production/flow is 36 tons/hr.
P is measured after dryer which operates at 95°C with 85mbar vacuum