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What do you do with Your poured off water?
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Hello, I've been trying my hand at two stage acid/ base rxn for about 6 months. I'm using a Biopro switching between auto and manual modes. I start in auto and turn processor off five and one half hours in, so only ae rxn occurs. I let this sit over night returning in the am to drain off about two gallons of fluid(I over load the machine by two gallons to start). This fluid is not all water, there is quite a bit of oil in it. Should I try to salvage it by adding it to my next waiting batch, is there much acid in it, should I add it to my settling tank( not to be processed for several days), is it trash? I titrate again to see where I now stand, either do a limited 2nd ae with more acid and meth or heat oil manually for an hour and jog(jump auto mode steps) and start base rxn. Just for reference I do multiple drying steps, weeks long settling, heated tank settling before I do drying phase in the biopro( heat and stirring for six hours then heated open top settling over night and drain off). Each time I drain off, because I assume some worthwhile oil is left I try to salvage it, am I wasting my time by contaminating my oil reserves? I titrate at each step, a HPT with mirror, a 27/3 and save samples for a season. Any suggestions, I'm trying to reduce my waste product, my glycerin becomes a soap pesticide for the fields, I'm storing settling crud to compost. Help there (composting)would be great.


 
Registered: June 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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fuelfarmer
-do you need to drain off the much? What is the starting T, is there any water evident when you drain, as far as disposal, that stuff is very acidic! I put my drainage into the previous byproduct, that neutralizes the acid, Now I'm getting ready to try my hand at soap making. The whole oil that is added from the drainage should help in this process. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I read this last night, but didn't answer.

I have some question though
you over fill by 2 gallons of oil right?
how much methanol do you start the AE with? you should drain out about 1/2 of this qty.

what's the starting titration? less than 18? KOH..forget draining

biotom right the stuff that does drain is acidic..think ph of 1..

now for the stuff that I drain when I need too..
all this goes in the glycerin drum for methanol recovery..yes most of what's drained is methanol. some is water and acid. so handle with care.

if you play with AE you should have a good methanol recovery setup

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello,
It's real difficult to judge a change when I pour off after my first ae, so as a practice, I drain off two gallons. My oil is titrating 22 to 32 (over the last year)NaOH, I initially used a commercially prepared NaOH titrant solution which over time may have schewed my results as it aged. I use KOH as my catalyst. I do blank my titrations before testing and am improving my technique with time. During my first ae I use 4 gallons of methanol, I try and compensate for what I drain for an approximate 20% total, 6 plus gallons for base rxn. I know I'm wasting a lot but I am tweaking here and there based on my yields, 90 to 98 %.
Adding this acidic solution to my glycerin byproduct concerns me, strong base and strong acid equals heat with methanol present? I was adding it to my next batch.
I'm in the process of making a still as I have surplus corn , wheat and ethanol scares me a lot less than methanol.
Yes, I'm studying up on methanol recovery but I want to know a whole lot more before I try. I've never used an appleseed processor, I'd like to see what is happening inside and even with fail safes pressure is my concern.
If most of what I drain is methanol, my yield calculations are off, I need to think this out again. Thanks


 
Registered: June 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Also thank you both, you two have been the most helpful and knowlegable here, I enjoy learning from your posts. Thanks again.

John


 
Registered: June 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John
-thanks for that, I have never noticed that there is any heat generated when the drainage is added to the by product, mind you, I ony drain a couple or three ltrs, and that is simply poured into the by product drum. now that you bring this up, I will try it on a much smaller scale, this is one area that I haven't had an incident yet Big Grin Big Grin if you know what I mean Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Tom
thank you again,
Isn't that what they say causes many of these plant explosions, H2SO4 being added to the byproduct tank by accident?

So adding this to my next batch before final drying a good or bad practice? I think of it as a pretreatment ae, it has H2SO4 and a high percentage of methanol.

If I reclaimed methanol from my byproduct as many do, I think it would not be as bad?

John


 
Registered: June 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John
-I don't know, but I will suit up and try it out doors Big Grin Big Grin Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gee thanks a lot Wink, the neighbors would love that even if they are a half mile away.


 
Registered: June 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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no worries on pour the drain stuff into glycerin. been doing to for quite some time.
I pour both in the 55 gallon drum until full then start distilling the methanol.

if you have question on setting up a still..I might be able to help.

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks, I'm near Statesville NC, may I PM you about the EtOH.

John


 
Registered: June 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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