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First time AE, a little help please....
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Dan
-your HF pump is not big enough for that batch size, you will find that once the reaction starts to take place, the byproduct dropout rate will be such that the pump moves mostly byproduct and therefore the wvo does not get mixed through the pump. 100ltr is about the maximum batch size for that pump. I added mechanical stirers to my processor to assist the HF pump with the mixing chore and I only process 160 ltr per batch.
-I now use NaOH, 6 for base + titration I found much more sucess with NaOH and single base processing after AE than with KOH. I use 20% methanol, 10% for AE and the remainder for base processing.
-I agree the two base process takes more time, but the resulting fuel passes 5 or 6/27 no problem which to means more of the tryglicerides have been converted. Having said that, with the pump you have you my need to reprocess more than once to pass even 3/27.
-you should wire up some overload protection for that pump,(some instructions can be found here http://www.make-biodiesel.org/...cle&id=95&Itemid=118 )and wire the heater so that it CAN,T be activated unless the pump is on. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks Tom,

I actually use two pumps at the same time and narrow the exit port down to create a 'eductive' effect. Haven't had problems at all passing 3/27 until doing AE.

So far my limited experience, with my setup, indicates that a T of say 4.5 which was brought down from 20 using acid is not the same as a normal 4.5, again, this is in my system using my process. I think some acid is hiding in my system even after draining and this demands more KOH for the base stage to complete. I do have that darn bulkhead in the bottom of the polytank which keeps it from draining 100% and could be hanging on to some acid which then gets into the base stage contaminating the batch and demanding an adjustment of the KOH amount which is what I intend to do next. simply add more KOH.
I may still get creative with an idea I had which is to fill the area around the bulkhead with silicone. This would eliminate the contamination issue, mostly.

Interesting that you have had more luck with NaOH, I always hear how KOH is best. I will probably stay with KOH simply because I process outside and it is darn cold these days, even here in central Ca.. I think if I used NaOH my plumbing would get clogged constantly out there. Also, I have a great source for 90% KOH flakes at 95 cents per lb. right now.

As for the safeties on the pumps (I use three of them) it almost seems easier to buy new pumps since adding the different upgrades seems to increase the price significantly, and then you would probably get a much more reliable product anyway... but I haven't really done the TCO/ROI on that, yet...

Thanks,
Dan
 
Location: Central California | Registered: April 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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the easier way then to trying to figure out how much extra KOH to add is to run 2 stages..does it pass done..no reprocess..repeat until it passes..

reprocessing doesn't take much chemicals..about 2grms of KOH per liter and 2-3 gallons of methanol for your 80 gallon batches..

2 HF pumps for an 80 gallon batch..I would still think is small..I run 3 different pumps
a goulds 3642 - about 40GPM. this setup has a homemade static mixer. in an 80 gallon water heater
a TE7 - 50gpm. in an 85 gallon cone bottom tank.
a TE5.5 - 30gpm. in an 85 gallon cone bottom tank.

2 HF might give you 10-15 even running with a nozzle setup. could you add 3 pumps? or go to a larger pump??


all of my batches are between 55 and 65 gallons.

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for chiming in Dkenny,
Right now I have to stick with what I've got on the pump front, but I know that on the local equipment auctions there are bigger/better/safer pumps all the time at reasonable prices so eventually I will probably go that route.
Right now I figure that the eductive effect I get increases mixing by about 100% putting me at a theoretical 20-30GPM which should suffice, but I know more is better. I hear some eductors can increase mixing 300-400%.

Anyway, I think you guys have me convinced, I will probably go ahead and do some 2 stage batches to get a better feel for the amount on chemicals needed in my processor when I use AE to lower T.

Dan
 
Location: Central California | Registered: April 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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don't forget to check Ebay..I got all 3 of my pumps there..
and under $100 each..

does your setup self heat the oil when the temp are about 70F? sure its not fast.

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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dkenny, I'm not sure I know what you mean, can you rephrase the question?
 
Location: Central California | Registered: April 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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will your oil heat without turning on the heating elements?

I hope that make more sense..sometimes I forget words..

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I heat my oil in a separate tank with a large Bio fueled military immersion heater.
Then I transfer to the reactor tank which uses an inline water heater element to maintain 130 degrees. So I need flow in order to maintain temp.

Dan
 
Location: Central California | Registered: April 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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with more pump flow its possible to maintain temps without using heating elements.

for my setup I find that if outdoor temps are over 70 and I don't mind waiting..I can heat the oil without using the inline elements. just a gage on how much flow you might have.

where is your temperature sense probe? and what are you using to control the temps?

mine is close to the element but downstream from the element..both are mounted high not low.
I have found that a PID will control this even with no flow..I found this by accident..thankfully nothing happened. Smile

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Erhm... what's a PID?

Anyway, I don't have thermostats because the heating element I use cannot bring the oil over 130 degrees in the current winter climate. Remember I preheat in a separate tank so just have to maintain temp in the reactor. When summer comes I will need a thermostat but how do you do that effectively and cheap? I use poly tanks and just plumbed a water heater element into a piece of 1" black iron pipe. What kind of thermostat would be easy to get and to install?
 
Location: Central California | Registered: April 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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PID - Programmable integral derivative...a name for a fancy thermostat.

it would be easy to add to your setup. a PID uses a temperature sense device, usually a thermal couple. a mechanical relay or SSR ( solid state relay). the relay just allows the PID to control large amounts of current. If I get time this weekend I take a photo of my heating element and thermal couple in my plastic cone bottom tanks.

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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