How much sodium bentonite would you suggest using on a 50 gallon batch?

I use about 10 grams per litre or just under 40 grams per gallon. So your 50 gallon batch would use about 2000 grams, or about 4.5lbs

whilst searching for something else I came across this about EA

Lab Procedure
• Measure the acid value of the WVO sample
• Note: Acid value is twice the %FFA
• Measure out 200g of WVO sample
• Heat sample to 60oC
• Measure out 2.25g methanol for every gram of FFA in the WVO sample
• Calculate amount of sulfuric acid to add
• 0.05 g of sulfuric acid for every gram of FFA in sample

from Van Gerpen
http://www.biofuels.coop/pdfs/11_2_stage.pdf

buckeye
-just looking at a new brand of K litter, it cintains baking soda so I guess I'm still on the hunt! Tom
-have been toooo busy to make biodiesel lately but will have to get back at it this week. Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Biotom:
buckeye
-just looking at a new brand of K litter, it cintains baking soda so I guess I'm still on the hunt! Tom

The baking soda probably wouldn't be good for AE , good to know they put it in some Klitter.

chug,

this was the starting point..

we've done better the Gerpen's paper on all accounts, exect lab made bad oil.


1. less methanol..most are within the 20% of base only processing..he's closer to 40%
2. less acid..close to 1/2 of my findings..and still less than he's
3. more predictable results..based on real world useage..not lab created bad oil
4. more real world results.

DON'T GET THIS WRONG!!!
He's work was the foundation for our work!!! without he's research..we'd all be running in the blind.

SO I GIVE HIM LOTS OF CREDIT for AE!!! and always will!!!

-dkenny

ps I posted several pages back about the improvements we've made..
his paper had problems with real world WVO..with lab made 'bad' oil everything worked..real world WVO it didn't..we do!

http://www3.me.iastate.edu/bio...pers/Papers_link.htm

please read the #4 article..

Hi Dave,

sorry if it's already been done, I hadn't seen it before, but knew he was pretty good with bio stuff.

quote:

with a hammer; walla,

Thanks for the tip Buckey!

Kitchen weekend test results.

I did find that the kitty litter "purina natural clay" no SB% given, definitely had an affinity for water. Just poured each (10 grams) through KL (10 grams) in a tea strainer separately. It held all water, returned 70% of the alcohol and 60% of the oil. The oil seemed to "Wet the outside of the KL not really absorb it. I then used 7 grams of oil, 2 grams of alcohol and 1 gram of water, shook it up and saw the 1 gram of water settle on the bottom. Shook like hell again and poured through the KL got 8.5 grams back, let settle NO WATER! I assume the extra 1/2 gram came from the water in the alcohol.

I used rubbing alcohol (70%), water and virgin corn oil (its what I had in the kitchen)


I'll make my "chips" today and start testing them tomorrow and use UVO, Methanol in proper percentages and report back.

THANKS!

dennis

does "natural clay = bentonite? Tom

quote:

Just make sure it is 100% sodium bentonite (not potasium bentonite) and you should be fine.

quote:

I did find that the kitty litter "purina natural clay" no SB% given

This is the problem I have found; of those brands of kitty litter I have looked at, I haven't seen a single mention of sodium bentonite on the bag or tub anywhere, let alone any indication of what % is contained. Even a couple internet searches for pure/natural/100% sodium bentonite littler turned up squat.

Does anybody have a specific brand known to have high content?

quote:

Originally posted by Biotom:
does "natural clay = bentonite? Tom

Tom, sodium bentonite is a natural clay, unfortunately so is potasium bentonite.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan P.:

quote:

Just make sure it is 100% sodium bentonite (not potasium bentonite) and you should be fine.

quote:

I did find that the kitty litter "purina natural clay" no SB% given

This is the problem I have found; of those brands of kitty litter I have looked at, I haven't seen a single mention of sodium bentonite on the bag or tub anywhere, let alone any indication of what % is contained. Even a couple internet searches for pure/natural/100% sodium bentonite littler turned up squat.

Does anybody have a specific brand known to have high content?

I couldn't tell you, however a local pond supply store usually carries 100% sodium bentonite as a natural pond liner, if you have no luck there try contacting a local water well driller and see if they are willing to sell you a bag.

And good luck Dennis! Just be sure your kitty litter contains no baking soda (thanks for the info Biotom!), it will nuetralize your sulfuric acid.

Backing the clay in the oven now (wife not to happy). I do not know if "Purina Natural Clay" is potassium or sodium... but there is no baking soda in it and it was the highest % dust free litter in the store but I don't remember the number ...something like 96.9% or 99.6% dust free. Remember I'm only testing its affinity for water.

Buckeye ":I use about 10 grams per litre or just under 40 grams per gallon. So your 50 gallon batch would use about 2000 grams, or about 4.5lbs"

if dosing 10% Methanol at 95% purity that's 5 gallons x .05 x 3.785 = .95 liters or 950 grams of water (just from the methanol). So 1000 grams of clay should take care of that... and an extra bit for water created water in the sulfuric and for error (just thinking out loud)...so yes Buckeye's 2000 grams for 50 gallon batch seems spot on.

I'll report back within 48 hrs

Thanks

dennis

How goes the testing Dennis?

Here is an update to where I am at with HTAE, just did a first stage on some 55T oil and dropped it to 16.5T. A drop of 38.5T,

Heres the kicker, I used under 40 gallons methonal for a 625 gallon batch, or about 6.4% by volume. I used an equivalant multiplier for the old Dkenny equation of (.025)m.

I went to re-dry the oil for second stage HTAE and got almost zero methonal off. Me likes no waste!

Finish T is NOT accounting for the acids effect on increasing the T, whats that formula again DoubleD?

Provided that all other issues have been cleared up in our processes (i.e. water, caustic, etc),
T should easily drop by 6 for every 1% methonal used, and lower titrating oil should do better considering that there will be less water created during the reaction so an even lower amount should be able to be used since less H2O will be fighting the reaction.

In other words I am saying for:
T=6 use 1% methonal
T=12 use 2% methonal
T=18 use 3% methonal
T=24 use 4% methonal
T=30 use 5% methonal
T=36 use 6% methonal
anything higher you should probably consider two stage HTAE to avoid water issues

Any thoughts guys?

Update,
Guess there was still some methonal left in solution, I started getting ready to do second stage HTAE this morning and took a titration beforehand, it dropped to 14.5T overnight, or a total drop of 40.5T!

This is with just under 6.4% methonal and .025(m) for sulfuric, Neat!

I just drained the glyc from my latest batch, this was 320 gallons, it started at 0600 yesterday at 8koh, after a two hour acid stage it was 2.1, base stage passed 3/27 after 1.5 hours, I started vacuum demething, I reclaimed 45 gallons of methanol, I originally added 75 gallons, yield before wood chips is 94%.

Fab, you obviously don't mess around with your methonal!

I just did my last titration and got 12.5T for finish. Total T lowered 42.5 in one stage with just 6.4% methonal! Very happy with that, now I will follow up with second stage.

I pulled a sample and have been running tests, for the final stage I plan to use 3% methonal, or about 19 gallons for 625+ gallon batch and expect it to finsh near 1T-2T after calculating for sulfuric.

Buckeye,
That would be Tx 2.25 or so. It depends on the strength of your Caustic and Sulfuric.
Take your % purity of your H2SO4 + % purity of your KOH and /2 = Avg purity.
Avg purity /2.16 is the multiplier. Multiplier x ml used = T.

2.2 to 2.5 (multiplier) is going to be pretty close considering variables that can't be accounted for. It is at best a "theoretical" that can't be realied upon too heavily, but never the less gives a good bit of insight.