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can't get AE to work on 40 gal.wvo
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quote:
Originally posted by Southside Biodiesel:


quote:
SB if you want to discuss the issues/problems with FATTA..start a new thread..
-dkenny
I already understand the FATTA procedure, I am trying to figure out what you are doing. Are you still using the method posted on biodiesel.org, you do not seem to be. Is it out of date like FATTA?

Please provide a link to the procedure you are using in this thread so I can follow what you are doing. And please do not say to read the 1540+ posts in the stickies, that is just a silly thing to say.


SB, The article in make-biodiesel.org was written before the long thread dkenny references. It has not been updated since the thread was started. If you like FATTA, use it. If you like what is in make-biodiesel.org, then use it. If you want to know the latest cutting edge on AE and follow what dkenny is doing, then you have to read the thread, just like every one else.

You get what you pay for. The free articles will never contain the latest research. You have to do that for yourself. Seems like a retired music teacher would know that one.

Rick
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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well put, Rick.

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good one Rick, Dave I can't find the TILLY BUSTED thread!I hope Shawn can Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin LOL TOM


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rickdatech, thank goodness there is someone rational to talk to.
I have been reading the stickies. They go back several years and a lot/most of the posts are not relevant to what is happening here.

So do I assume that this procedure being discussed in this thread is not written down anywhere and is only in the memory of Biotom and dkenny. From what I can sort out, they are not even reading off the same play-sheet.

AE is not rocket science. I actually do understand a bit of chemistry. If someone could just post the important information like how to figure out the amount of methanol and H2SO4 to use I can go from there.

I think that someone could at least supply this tiny bit of information and not just automatically say "Read the Stickies"
 
Location: Southside | Registered: January 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think that someone could at least supply this tiny bit of information and not just automatically say "Read the Stickies"


SB, I'll say it one more time. Use FATTA, Use the method described on make-biodiesel.org, it has a calculator to help out, or READ THE STICKY.
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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SB
-the new process is being written,(I'm not sure what it will look like since Dave and I are singing from different song sheets) and I'm sure the first copy will go to Rickda tech. i'm not sure how useful it will be to anyone with what seems to be a very closed mind. anyway if you are interested the starting point for AE would be 1/2 of the methanol you use for BASE reaction for the methanol amount and the acid amount is calculated T *.15 * # of ltre of wvo,for ml of acid, but I have already posted that on this thread, so if thats what you are looking for don't read the stickys, this info was a result of all the testing there, and isn't included in that thread. Both Dave and I have invited you to PM or email but you continue with your bs on this thread. Please help me to understand Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Biotom:
SB
...AE would be 1/2 of the methanol you use for BASE reaction for the methanol amount and the acid amount is calculated T *.15 * # of ltre of wvo,for ml of acid,
Thank you for that information biotom, that was one of the things I am trying to find out.
I have found some WVO that titrates 7 KOH. That means I will use 1.05ml H2SO4 mixed into 100ml MeOH for every litre of oil reacted.
dkenny said the amount of MeOH varies according to the titration. Can you tell me the formula for that.

quote:
Both Dave and I have invited you to PM or email but you continue with your bs on this thread. Please help me to understand Tom
I was only replying to dkennys statements that he had posted to me in this thread.
 
Location: Southside | Registered: January 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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SB
-use the amount of methanol I suggested. Will ae work with less chemicals yes, in some reactors. so that you don't run into any problems, the amounts I have given you will give good results. As I have said many times before and repeat to those who PM me for help with AE, get the process working for you then start to cut back one chemical at a time to get the lowest amount that still gives good results in your processor. you can see in a previous post here, the chemical amounts I use for my processor, they are much lower than what I have recommeded to you, Each person doing AE must find the low number by doing the process. There will never be a magic LOW number -If I can help you in any other way for this process just ask. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'll have to redo the samples tomorrow. I forgot to cut the methanol amounts in half since I do 1/2 liter samples .The first 50/50 I did OK ,but I forgot on these. Anyway #1 was 100% ae oil with 100ml. meethanol (or actually 200ml/liter) was T6, #2was 100% ae oil 150ml.methanol (or 300/liter) was T5, #4 was 350 ml new wvo to 150 ae oil ,with 125 ml methanol (or 250/liter) was T6.5. I'll ran 3 more samples tomorrow with the methanol amounts cut in half.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I the mean time I'll do 2 more samples 50 &75 ml

For the half liter samples that's 25 ml.and 37.5 ml. and the 2 I messed up yesterday would be 50 ml.and 75 ml. for the 1/2 liter tests.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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heatbeater
-Oooooooh! look on the brite side , T was very good for all samples so your heading in the right direction. did you notice any phase seperation on top or bottom of those samples? If you still have then, would you set them to cool and see what if any seperation you get. Just trying to see if all samples left to cool will seperate the methanol to the top or bottom. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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see if all samples left to cool will seperate the methanol to the top or bottom. Tom

I noticed methanol on the top of all of them ,some more than others,depending how much was used.(the more used the more on top) To me its a sign of overdosing ,I don't have the best arrangement to stir the mixtures up,though. All I did was shake the jars up every couple of hours. I don't have the next round of AE samples ready yet. I have to heat the wvo first to get it blended good.The weather has turned colder ,even had some snow last night.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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hey,
heatbeater..
don't be too down on yourself if the batch doesn't go as planned..


why??
at the risk if comments to be ignored..
I started a batch on Sunday..the oil was dry..I should have re titrated the oil after drying and adding some other oil..mistake #1..
the predry/preoil addition titration was 5..so
110 mls of acid and 4ish gallons of methanol..there is about 60gallons of oil..

I checked the T after a couple of hours..T6 .. Eek

so I reheated and mixed some more..I have to mix while heating..24hrs later it now T5.. Eek

I have added more methanol today..time will tell..

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The best sample came out to T8 using 150 ml methanol /liter. That seems like alot of methanol to use just for AE. I used 75 ml./liter and going to see what happens,and then do base. I just did a titration and it was T11,which isn't imppressive. I watched the reactor vent and can see vapor drifting off.The previous AE it was raining out ,so I couldn't tell. Methanol vapor is getting pulled out especially if the wind is strong.The bio is getting demethed before its even converted. The pipe acts like a chimmey for a fireplace. Going to have to do something about that. It hard to say how much methanol is getting lost out the vent. I can't wait to get this batch out the way . Do I still have to use 20% methanol for the base reaction?
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I let the batch sit for a few days and drained about 2 1/2 -3 gallons of dark methanol off . I drained until thicker wvo started to come. The methanol is very acidic according to a pH strip I used.( it turned red). Stirred the batch up after draining and did a titration and its down to T7, which is a nice improvement from the original T15. So I'm thinking why not add another 3 gallons and blend and settle and see if I can get the titration to drop again. The methanol is acting like a sponge and pulling the acid out. I still might be able to reuse the methanol for future AE batches.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Has anybody reused the methanol from AE batches with success? Plus I would think it would absorb any water and set things up for a good base reaction.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I have added more methanol today..time will tell..

dkenney how did you make out with that batch?
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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heatbeater,

I hope you're thinking about setting up a methanol recovery..I pour my draining into the same drum as the base reaction glycerin..then distill..

my batch..well adding more methanol..no change..so last night I added 50mls more acid..230liter batch..started with 110mls..applying caution here..50ml is about 1/4ml per liter..or about 0.5mls titration...well it dropped to 4 over night..I haven't check it again..

sometimes more acid is needed..so your choice was necessarily wrong..remember in the future adding acid is a oneway street..too..titration goes up,,just like FATTA method says..this is about only think FATTA had right..FATTA never answered what's too much?

back to my batch..4 is close enough for me..so I won't try anything else to lower it..for starting at 15 and stopping at 7..sure try more things. the yield at T7 is terrible. isn't the main goal of AE to get good/great yields from 'bad' oil?

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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heatbeater
-adding more methanol will reduce T by dilution! add the total amout of acid used per ltr of wvo, and multiply by 2.2 you will find that you have reached your lowest T for that acid load. Time to go to base reaction. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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