BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Acid Esterification    going to try acid esterification

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
going to try acid esterification
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted
This weekend I'm going to try doing acid esterification on a 40 gallon batch titrating 9. The way I understand it is you can add the acid directly to the wvo,calualated 182 ml. acid(9-3x.2x152L) for this batch,with 4.8 gallons methanol(60%of the total). 183 ml.of acid doesn't seem like enough. Is there any glycerin formed that should be drained off before I go to the base reaction? I want to start doing the acid process because I have 300 gal.wvo that titrates 15. I found some Rooto which I saw another homebrewer was using but I can't find a percentage of sulfuric acid on the bottle.(I guess it doesn't matter) Is adding the acid to the methanol more effective. As far as I underatand it you can't just pour the KOH or lye in separate from the methanol when doing base reactions so it seems weird that it works with the acid .
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
no need to drain anything until you have oil that T's around 13 on up. The amount of acid is good, maybe even a few ml's too much based on the current thinking. adding the acid to the methanol or not is personal preference, it appears it doesnt matter if you do it separatly. Good luck.
 
Registered: May 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
heatbeater

-I use much less acid with very good results. If you check the acid thread, on the last batch I used a multipier of .10 the thing here, is the wvo has to be very dry. dryness is more imortant in acid esterfication that in the base transeserfication!! Moisture will stop the ae process dead in it's tracks. the conversion of ffa's to esters will be reduced to 5% using Wvo with 5% moisture content! Eek
- try adding the methanol to the wvo first, then mix for 20 - 30 min. after that add the acid. this method works great, and the acid doesn't cause the biodiesel to be as dark. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
no need to drain anything until you have oil that T's around 13 on up. The amount of acid is good, maybe even a few ml's too much based on the current thinking
Will an overdose of acid have any effects ,possibly counteract the base reaction?
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Wvo with 5% moisture content

quote:
Moisture will stop the ae process dead in it's tracks. the conversion of ffa's to esters will be reduced to 5% using Wvo with 5% moisture content!
I'm not to confident when it comes to dewatering wvo. The best I can do is leave the element on and a fan blowing across the top of the reactor tank. Will some of the water separate to the bottom,so I can drain it off? I thought that's how it should work from reading other posts but I"ve never really seen much if any water drain off the bottom after heating ,but maybe I'm not heating it long enough. Just overnight to a day at the most.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
heatbeater

-the short answer is no. extra acid seems to give you a faster esterfication process, but this extra acid has to be neutralized in the next base step. If I use .10 as a multipier, it takes about .75gr of KOH to bring the T sample back to neutral. so the more acid you use the more KOH or Naoh you will require. My process takes about 12 - 14 hrs more acid would speed that up for sure. Tom

-to answer your last post,I always let my wvo sit in a heated tank, did a HPT one time to see if this worked , and no bubbles, so in theory wvo was dry. then dkenny starts the acid thread and lots of people trying different ways of ae with varying degrees of success. Through this thread, I have been able to get my final T to average .75. What I did was spend more time drying. bring the wvo into the processor, heat,circulate.and blow air into the tank, it only takes a small amount, this carries the moisture from the tank. Place a cool glass (I often place my eye glass at the opening,) on the escaping air, and if it doesn't fog up, it's good to go.


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
heatbeater,

how to dry your finished biodiesel?
use the same process to dry the WVO..it works..

Tom's right the drier the better..also think about using about 0.15 instead of 0.2..seems to work better..when in doubt use less acid not more..its easy to add more acid later if needed, but once added you cannot take it back.

-dkenny

if you run into problem PM both Tom and myself..I sure we can help you get started..


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Acid Esterification    going to try acid esterification

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014