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Best Method to dewater >1.4% batch after AE
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After going to base and before washing the biodiesel, the batch passed the 3/27 test- no drop out at all.

After the initial 24 hours of settling which measure high water content via S/B, I let it settle for 2 more days, drained another 5 gallons, and heat & stirred for 8 hours. At that point S/B measured 0.08% and I went to base.

Very insightful discussion regarding S/B and water content.
 
Registered: October 30, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Dgs,

quote:
Originally posted by Dgs:
So you take things that Graydon says with more than a pinch of salt, yet choose to not believe his last paragraph.
I see you are confused- please let me explain
"(With) a grain of salt", (or "a pinch of salt") is an idiom of the English language, which means to view something with skepticism, or to not take it literally."
In simpler language- I do not always believe what Graydon says either.

However, as for Graydon's last statement, if it is actually true that "Sandy Brae was tested multiple times by multiple people against the Karl Fisher and found to report nearly identical results to what a Karl Fisher showed." that does not support your claim that it takes 12 hours for the Sandy Brae test to read the same as the Karl Fisher.
None of these supposed multiple people doing multiple test checks of the Sandy Brae test against the Karl Fisher test would have waited 12 hours before reading the Sandy Brae test.

I'm still waiting.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Mate ...just walk away
 
Registered: June 11, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Dgs:
No point in posting my tests Tilly, you would only find a reason why you didn't like the results.

Far better is this post by Graydon, ...
quote:
Now, for the REAL answer to all of this.
Free water is really all we care about. Bound water/dissolved water really doesn't mean squat as far as using Biodiesel goes. Why? Because it stays bound/suspended in the Biodiesel and doesn't do any harm....
Good stuff!
-Graydon



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Farmerpete-au,

quote:
Originally posted by Farmerpete-au
Mate ...just walk away
It is no problem, I do not mind trying to sort out the accuracy of Dgs' posts.



Hi John,

quote:
Originally posted by john galt:

[b]Free water is really all we care about.
I absolutely Agree!
The only test I have ever used is the bright and clear test.

However there are some people who want to go much further and use manometers and sandy Braes and hpt and Karl Fischers, and etc.

These people deserve accurate information too even though we both agree it is not required Wink

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tilly,






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here is some interesting information that might have an affect on the Sandy Brae test reading if you are measuring the water content after performing the Acid stage of an A/E reaction.

The chemical used with the Sandy Brae test is Calcium Hydride which reacts with water to produce Calcium Hydroxide and Hydrogen gas.
It is the hydrogen gas that increases the pressure in the container that moves the needle.

One molecule of Calcium Hydroxide and one molecule of Sulfuric Acid will react to give one molecule of Calcium Sulphate and two molecules of Water
https://answers.yahoo.com/ques...0090124114957AAhbayR

So one would suspect that this water produced when the Sulfuric Acid was neutralized by the Calcium Hydroxide would then be detected by the remaining Calcium Hydride and move the needle even further.

Also

(3) Calcium hydride and methanol will react to form calcium methoxide and hydrogen.
Williams and Truesdall I. Am. Chem. Soc. 45, 1350
https://www.google.com/patents/US3009964







 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Saying free water is bound and therefore does no harm is not exactly correct. Water does not combust (burn) and takes calories (energy) to vaporize while the biodiesel is combusting (exploding/burning), reducing the amount of energy taken on by the gasses produced by the explosion in the engine's combustion chamber. Although it may be a small difference, the drier the better for best results. The idea was to optimize at reasonable cost efficient expense for synthetic fuel production.
 
Location: Texas | Registered: April 27, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Saying free water is bound and therefore does no harm is not exactly correct.


Of course that's incorrect; nobody in this discussion made that claim.

Free water causes corrosion in fuel system components like injection pumps; that's why it's considered harmful.

Bound/dissolved water will turn to steam during fuel combustion with a significant increase in volume. In fact machines called steam locomotives pulling trains weighing hundreds of tons were propelled entirely by the expansive power of steam.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To vaporize water requires energy. Water does not burn producing its own heat from burning to add to the calories released from combustion. Yes water vaporizes, but in so doing energy is subtracted from the yield of energy produced, given off upon burning. If the bound water per centage was biodiesel that produces heat and hot gas upon explosion the the volume of gas produced by the same mass of biodiel of anhyrous biodiesel would be a bit hotter. Not by much but a bit. That's where considerations of cost effectiveness of removing water might be made. Perfectly dry biodiesel is a slightly superior product. But it might not be worth doing. Tell me where I'm wrong in writing that.
 
Location: Texas | Registered: April 27, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank you for the information, Tilly!

Interestingly when I tested my methanol, the needle on Sandy Brae did not move at all.

Yet, when I tested Sulfuric Acid (94% purity purchased from a hardware store), the needle moved very fast.
 
Registered: October 30, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The "the calories released from combustion" don't move the pistons it's the rapid expansion of gasses increasing the pressure in the combustion chamber that moves the piston and ultimately the vehicle. If some of that increased pressure comes from water vaporizing as steam it adds to the power produced. That's part of the benefit from water injection systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engine)



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi John,

quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
The "the calories released from combustion" don't move the pistons it's the rapid expansion of gasses increasing the pressure in the combustion chamber that moves the piston and ultimately the vehicle. If some of that increased pressure comes from water vaporizing as steam it adds to the power produced.
So as I read it, you are claiming that water injection is an "over unity" device.
I think you need to go back and do more "careful" research on why Water injection is used and it's benefits.
Hint: turning your diesel engine into a steam engine is not one of the benefits.


quote:
That's part of the benefit from water injection systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engine)
I assume you meant to give a link to this page
Water injection (engine)

You do understand we are not talking about a pulse jet I hope.

I suggest that you have a look at this page.
http://www.dieselarmy.com/engi...-methanol-injection/






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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