BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Acid Esterification    why was yield so low?

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
why was yield so low?
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted
After doing what I thought was a successful AE and base reaction on 40 gallons of wvo that orginally titrated 11 I end up with 25 gallons of bio after water washing. I was hoping at least 30. What went wrong?
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
heatbeater
-even at 30 gallons the yield would only be 75%.(at 25 gallons it is about 62%) you need to start thinking 95 - 98% yield. You can achieve 62% yield on T 11 oil without doing AE!
-so what went wrong? not really enough information here to make that determination.
-what was the ending T: how much acid did you use / ltr of wvo; how much biodiesel was lost in the byproduct drainage; how much biodiesel was dicarded with the wash water? all of these things affect yield Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Before doing the water wash I thought the yield was going to good. The final titration after using 160 cc. of acid and 3.5 gallons of methanol was 4. Did one base reaction with koh (1800 grams with 4.5 gallons of methanol,but didn't pass 3/27,and drained off 9 gallons of glycerin . Second base reaction was with 1 gallon of methanol using 300 grams Naoh ,that passed 3/27. Weird thing after the 2nd reaction was a skin that formed on the top of the bio. My guess is it was soap formed from Naoh,water and oil,but I'm not sure. Did I lose some bio in the wash water? Could the amount of bio I lost be the same amount of residual methanol that bonded with the wash water and bio? That's my guess on what happened.How can this be avoided?
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
heatbeater
-I just posted pictures to your other thread that should have been posted here, not sure how to change that -uck up! Mad
-draining too much byproduct in between two base stages can be really be hard on yield unless the byproduct is allowed to settle for at least 12 hour, 24 would be better.
-you used just over 1 ml of acid/ per ltr of oil so using Daves majic formula of ml of acid/ltr of wvo X 2.2 the minimum T could as low as be 2.4. So the fatty acid content of the oilafter AE would be = T 1.1, the remaing T was acid. I don't see ant problem with your AE, but after AE , 80/20 base base processing works best, or do single base as I do with a planned repo. this requires a little more methanol but the results are worth it. I repo with 1 gr caustic in 10ml methanol/ ltr of tank volume after draining the byproduct. I never drain more than 3/4 of the volume of methanol that was used in the combined AE/base process. so if I uased 32 ltrs of methanol, I would only drain 24ltrs of byproduct at this time.
-loosing bio in the wash water can be avioded if you stop draining once the water only is drained. once the drainage starts to have the consistancy of milk you are discarding good biodiesel. Tom

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Biotom,


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Was this a base stage on oil that you did the pretreatment with glycerin and had all that excess brown stuff y'were having trouble identifying?
 
Registered: February 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Tom, I did see your other reply to my other post that I did in May of '09 Big Grin Isn't this '10? Just kidding! I appreciate the replies I get from everybody. Looks like I must have tossed the bio out with the wash water. I store my wash water in a tote so maybe it'll show up on top. I almost think I need to do methanol recovery after the batch passes 3/27. Wouldn't that cut down on this problem?
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Was this a base stage on oil that you did the pretreatment with glycerin and had all that excess brown stuff y'were having trouble identifying?

This is a different batch. I jugged up that batch and I'm undecided what to do with it. This last batch made me feel good and everything seemed to be going good until I got to the wash stage.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
now I'm answering year old stuff, I just got to quit this!!! Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin 2010 eh! Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Acid Esterification    why was yield so low?

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014