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SAP test and Recipe for Bob Abbey's KOH BDG
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Tom:

I was able to get about 64oz of BDG to work with. I did a KNC SAP test on the BDG and found that your SAP is just over 30% SAP. A bit higher than normal most likely because of the extra oil in the BDG after the caustic stripping.

I did a KNC Glycerin Ratio test and found that the soap content was slightly over 60% of your BDG. Again a bit higher than normal and most likely because you demeth your BD with your BDG, this will deposit more soaps into your BDG.

I made a batch of soap from your BDG using the KNC SAP results and then properly diluted it by using the results from the KNC Glycerin Ratio test.

I purposely made soap a little hot to ensure that everything was saponified. I did this by using a 32% SAP instead of the 30% SAP that was determined by the KNC SAP test. I also made it a bit caustic hot to allow the Borax to thicken the soap without clouding it.

The final pH of the soap was 9.8. It turned out nice and clear with a good viscosity. I will be sending it back to you this week.

A few extra notes. Your SAP could vary if you get too much into the oil later on top of your glycerin. However when you are making the soap you can check pH and adjust accordingly. The oil can also significantly affect your dilution ratio. This is because the oil will be 85%-90% soap and 10%-15% glycerin where as your BDG is about 60% soap and 40% glycerin.

I know we have talked about possibly using a bit of your oil to the BDG to make your soap with. I would suggest no more than about 20% oil to BDG.

Let me know how you would like to move forward. If you want you can send me some more BDG and we can work out a custom recipe for you.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rick;
Your conclusions have answered many questions and suspicions.
The oil content has been a problem when processing BDG in to degreaser
and obviously we will have to make some adjustments in the process.
IYO should we continue with the caustic strip knowing we want and need to convert our BDG to soap and revenue ?? I have more BDG from the same batch or I have a fresh batch in the processor now
that has not been used to do a strip. I'll send you whichever or whatever you want.
15 Degrees F in Northern Alabama in early December ??? Thankfully the shop is warm Cool

Thanks again Rick this is great !!!
regards
Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think you can continue with your caustic stripping.
I would just try to pull off the bottom of your BDG tote and limit the amount of oil. The oil will not hurt your soap at all. It just makes it much easier if the BDG is oil free.

I would measure oil free BDG from the bottom of your tote and then measure oil from the top of the tote. This way you should not have to run a SAP test each and every time you make your soap. You should only need to re-run a SAP every so often if you process does not change, however if you have varying amounts of oil you would need to run a SAP on every batch.

Remember liquid soap is very forgiving, if you check the pH and it is too low you can always add more caustic solution. If the pH is too high you can bring it back down with citric acid, borax, lemon juice or boric acid.

When I am using borax to thicken the soap I usually make the soap a bit caustic hot, over 10.5 then back it off with the borax thickening solution.

It's that cold down there? I used to live in Chattanooga TN and it never really got cold. If it did it was nice by lunchtime.

Anyway... Go ahead and send me some that has some from your strip, but be sure to decant from the bottom of your container.

Because the KNC SAP test is really a universal fatty acid test it will account for the oil in your BDG. Just like above, when it was mostly oil the KNC SAP test was showing close to 100% SAP.

The KNC SAP test can be use for any combination of BDG, Fatty Acid and/or whole oil.

The extra oil is not a bad thing, you just want to be sure you know how much you add for each batch. Either via the BDG or raw oil.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tom,
Thought you might like a quick look at your soap.



I was also thinking about the extra oil in your BDG. The extra oil is not a bad thing, not at all. It just makes it a bit more difficult to be consistent. However, we can develop a process around that. We just use the "best guess" SAP value and check the soap after hot processing. If it needs more caustic solution we can just add more, just like you do for under-reacted fuel. You can actually just have a tote of caustic solution mixed up that you can use to finish saponifying the soap when necessary. The only negative is that you will have a longer batch time for your soap, the extra energy should be minimal as more heat will be generated as you further saponifiy the soap.

I think we can work the soap process around your current biodiesel process, rather than modifying your biodiesel process to meet the needs of your soap. Bottom line, the biodiesel is the mainstream product and less forgiving if not done right.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rick:
It looks great !!
Is that Orange Blossoms I smell ?? Cool
Thanks again
Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Orange oil it is!


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Rick:
I believe I have a batch of oil free Glycerin.
This batch was demethed hard and is pretty thick.
I settled it for a few days as well.
The NT blue had a hard time pumping it out.
Any way I'm on my way out to send you a 5 Gal carboy.
Anxious to see what you think about this sample as it
should be closer to what we should see on a more consistent basis.
Thanks again
Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes that sounds more like what I expect to see.

Can't wait.

Your soap should be there in the next day or so.

The orange oil had thinned it too much then I added just a bit too much borax trying to make up for it -- so this batch is good but the next one will be much better.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Your soap should be there in the next day or so.

Soap arrived and have been using. I really like the orange !!!
My daughter likes the way it smells and feels and she is pretty finicky!!!
Soap is sensitive to the cold and partially gelled in shipping. Sitting by the window
caused the same thing.


[QUOTE]
The orange oil had thinned it too much then I added just a bit too much borax trying to make up for it -- so this batch is good but the next one will be much better.




Is it the borax that causes the squeaky clean feeling ?? The orange scent is really nice . I want to make this one for sure !!!
Anxious to hear about the second batch of Glycerin we sent.
Thanks
Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Hamlin205:
Is it the borax that causes the squeaky clean feeling ?? The orange scent is really nice . I want to make this one for sure !!!


Tom,
The squeaky feeling is more likely due to full saponification and proper dilution. The borax is used to thicken the soap after it's been diluted.

If your soap is not fully saponified it can have a greasy kind of feeling when you rinse off the soap.

There are two basic ways to have "thick" soap. One is concentration and one is diluting and thickening. A concentrated soap takes more water to start washing and to rinse off. A diluted/thickened soap is at the correct dilution to start washing right away and you need to use less water to rinse it off.

I received your BDG. Much close to what I expect it to look like. I made a really quick batch of soap to be sure.

I think we should start another thread for this so we can go from start to finish on the soap.

If you don't mind, I would like to use your BDG to create a blog posting. Basically follow the whole process from checking the glycerin ratio, checking the SAP, making the soap to final dilution and thickening.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A diluted/thickened soap is at the correct dilution to start washing right away and you need to use less water to rinse it off.

The Citrus soap is perfect, It lathers right up and rinses right off.
Did I mention I really like this one !!!
Cool



If you don't mind, I would like to use your BDG to create a blog posting. Basically follow the whole process from checking the glycerin ratio, checking the SAP, making the soap to final dilution and thickening.

Rick,
Not at all, and again many thanks for your time and help.
regards
Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rick:
Wanted to post a picture or two. Finally getting started. Even though the BDG was Demethed
there was residual. Part of SOP will have to be to reprocess again with heat.
The Saponificataion process yeilded a paste the first time because of lack of water.
It liquified with heat and water, added a little scent and turned out nice !!
Thanks again

Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?


ImageLiquid_Soap_1.JPG (36 Kb, 15 downloads)
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hamlin205:

{/QUOTE]

Tom,
This soap looks perfect!

Good Job. Smile

I am working on your SAP test today, I will be Blogging about it this week.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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