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Glycerine from prewash watery
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I just finished my first batch of pre-washed BD , got MAJOR amount of soap out of BD on first wash before I overflowed the wash tank. but that is another problem.

The glycerin I got from the batch is very watery (because of the 4 gallons of pre-wash water).

Question: Do I need to boil down the glycerin before making soap, or can I just heat it and add NAOH without the other water?


Shannon
81'Merc 300D (B100)
99 Dodge Ram 2500 (Cummins) (WMO/Bio)
 
Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: January 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nope, what you firstly have to do is distill out the residual methanol, which means you will also be getting rid of the water. Once that is done you can THEN think about making soap from it. Whether or not NaOH is the best choice is wholly dependent upon what type of feedstock the original oil is and what it was processed with to begin with;IE - processing canola with KOH isn't going to deliver a glyc that is easily made into bar soap. It CAN be done, although not without additives which defeat the purpose of having a natural product.

HTH



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OK. Good.Thanks.

Second question: would having methanol still in the mix cause the soap to be beige on the outside brown in the center?


Shannon
81'Merc 300D (B100)
99 Dodge Ram 2500 (Cummins) (WMO/Bio)
 
Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: January 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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no, that would have to do with tallow content.

On another note here is a quote from an email I just received from Africa;

"Our Glycerol Soap has been a huge success and an enormous income generator for people without a work."

And that personifies why I got into this thing from the start.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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here are some pics of my first attempt and a reatempt.

The soap on the left is after 4+weeks of setting after following the 150deg for 10 minutes process. it works great, but looks strange.

I decided to rebatch it with some more lye, more heat and cooked it longer.The soap on the right is the result. neither is caustic.

does this look right?


Shannon
81'Merc 300D (B100)
99 Dodge Ram 2500 (Cummins) (WMO/Bio)


ImageDSCF2525.JPG (40 Kb, 13 downloads) soaps
 
Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: January 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
the 150deg for 10 minutes process
Where'd you get those numbers? What recipe are you using ?

On the left looks like it is under done, but that is from appearances. Be interesting to see what volumes you are using and what feedstock.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Legal,

I use vegetable oil from the local veterans posts (primarily used to cook wings). It is usually only used twice, sometimes 3 times. When I trirate I get a 0.5 - 1.0 after cooking off the water and filtering to 75 microns.

The recipe that I used is:
"The amount of lye and water used will depend on the amount of glycerin you are processing. I have found that one quart of water per gallon of glycerin (or 25%) works well, producing a soap with good lathering and cleansing abilities. On the lye, I use 38.5 grams per liter or 5.5 oz. per gallon of glycerin. I have used these quantities on several batches of glycerin, even when the glycerin is from WVO from different sources.
Heat the glycerin in a stainless steel or aluminum pot (or your bio processor) to 150 degrees F. to remove any excess methanol (if you used ethanol, heat to 175 F.). Measure the proper amounts of water and lye to be used, heat the water to 100 degrees F., add the lye and mix until all the lye is dissolved. Be sure not to breathe the fumes. Pour the water/lye mixture into the glycerin. Continue to heat the glycerin for another ten minutes while mixing. Allow to mix for an additional ten minutes (20 mins. total) at slow speed. The mixture may foam up slightly and form soap bubbles. After mixing is complete, the soap can be poured into a container and allowed to cool."
from http://www.permaculture.com/node/535

I added about 2TBLS of lye (NAOH) to about 1 liter of soap when I recooked it. The mix was frothy when I pored it into the molds. Thought about cooking it longer, but it was starting to gel.


Shannon
81'Merc 300D (B100)
99 Dodge Ram 2500 (Cummins) (WMO/Bio)
 
Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: January 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey Shannon;

Terry's article is antique as far as soap making with the by product goes. And it is bent on using a specific type of feedstock glycerine for it's recipe.

The glycerine will require from anywhere from 15gr - 30gr per liter and 200ml's water per liter. The lower end NaOH (15gr) should only be applied to new oil feedstock, the rest (any used cooking oi stock) should be at 30gr. At 38.5gr/L your soap may be "hot" like lye soap.

Whether or not you will get decent bars depends on both the original feedstock and the type of caustic used in the processing. The short chain oils (canola,sunflower ...) processed using NaOH can still produce good bars but will need a binding agent (I use pig fat) unless it is hydrogenated to start with.

The further you get away from short chain oils and closer to higher levels of hydrogenation the less you will have trouble making bar soap.

To remove the residual methanol you will need to either distill the glycerine until all you are getting is a very very slow drip from the condenser or about 45min PER liter at a slow roll and done outside downwind.

When blending the caustic water into the glyc you mix until it reaches what is called trace, which is when the mix gets thicker and starts to go gel - like. Then you mix in the essential oil and mold.

When processed using hot glycerine your soap will be ready when it cools, otherwise it will need to cure for 10 days or until you can no longer get a bite using the battery test ( take the corner of a bar and stick it on your tongue's underside; if it bites like a 9V battery it is still "hot" and needs more time or a rework.)

If you process canola using KOH bars are a problem (unless you get into boat loads of chems and synthetics like some have done), but you can make great liquid soap with it. Equal amounts of water and glycerine with 40gr KOH per liter of glyc and you are good to go. Careful if the glyc is very hot as it will tend to volcano on you; add the caustic water slowly and mix it in well. Add the essential oil before the caustic mix.

HTHJ



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks, of all that I have read. That is the best explanation that I have gotten.
What about that PH stuff. Do you bother, or just use a standard recipe?


Shannon
81'Merc 300D (B100)
99 Dodge Ram 2500 (Cummins) (WMO/Bio)
 
Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: January 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you successfully pass the battery test your soap should have a PH of 9 - 10.5 which is standard.

The glycerine layer is not like working with all raw ingredients as it is an already mostly saponified mixture that only needs a push to reach completion. That is what makes the numbers so much lower than in raw acid soap making.

Once the methanol is successfully removed what you already have is a pretty decent degreaser as is. It is only of you want full on soap that it needs further processing.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Got it. Thanks again.


Shannon
81'Merc 300D (B100)
99 Dodge Ram 2500 (Cummins) (WMO/Bio)
 
Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: January 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Legal Eagle:
Once the methanol is successfully removed what you already have is a pretty decent degreaser as is.

Yep but be careful there is more methanol in there than you think.
We demeth BD glycerin seperate until it stops, usually around 15% of the glycerin volume.
We sell our degreaser in 275 Gal Totes to industrial users thanks
largely to Legal Eagles help !!
good luck
regards
Tom


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Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I've been cooking it till it reaches 250degrees F. at that temp its about 30% of it original volume, and flows like Aunt Jamima syrup. Is that enough?


Shannon
81'Merc 300D (B100)
99 Dodge Ram 2500 (Cummins) (WMO/Bio)
 
Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: January 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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