Ah, I never considered that people would be expected to pay for help here.
I just assumed that all the people here offering help did it out of the goodness of their heart. No money or pat on the back required. Especially when it comes to Schools.
Seems that as the commercial industry in the US is hurting at the moment some people are taking every opportunity to use the forum to find commercial work, times must be hard, although in this instance HelpingHand is talkig about volunteering, unlike quite a few of his recent posts in other threads offering his services.
Sorry haters. I don't spend tens of thousands of personal and customer money to give away everything we have learned for free. To do so would be and insult to both me and my customers.
On the other hand, I have seen many people (some registered on this forum) make the jump "from the garage" to "commercial production." I'm here to help those people so that when they do invest significant capital, it will not be wasted.
I'm currently working on continuous flow heterogenous catalyst esterification equipment development, while simultanious getting a new plant fully permitted in California. For me this forum is entertaining (what's more funny that listening to two people who are both wrong argue?) When I see a worthwhile "volunteer" cause I'm willing to help.
Since when is it "cool" to "bash" on someone simply because they know more than you and are not willing to give you that information for free? I think it's nice to know that IF you are serious, there is someone available that will give you correct PROVEN answers instead of speculation. Biodiesel is a business to me. It is my livelyhood.
If it's not socially acceptable to have a "profit motive" then innovation will cease. What kind of American are you? People will not invest money testing new processes. Futhermore if every discovery is disclosed to the public then the person who FIRST paid to make the discovery gets a raw deal since the discovery "cost them money."
If I did not have a profit motive I would not have had the opportunity to learn the most cutting edge technologies, varous processing methods, and government regulations.
To simply come onto this forum and give away the secrets that people have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into would be in violation of various non-disclosure agreements that I have, and be just plain unAmerican. If it's better to have a bunch of idiots working for "free" than to have a "paid" expert, then I'm in the wrong country.
To turn your arguement around, I would say that your LACK of PROFIT MOTIVATION explains the stagnation present on this forum, lack of accurate information, and abundance of mis-information. If you were serious about producing fuel (safely and profitably) there would not be endless threads dedicated to using pumps (and equipment in general) that would never be approved by an inspector for the uses RECOMMENDED on this forum.
I'm fine with you guys doing whatever you want to do in your garage, but if someone is serious about making the jump into commercial production they are going to need help. That is why I am here.
If you want to hate on me for trying to make a living, why don't you look in the mirror and explain to yourself why it's OK for home brewers to emmit 5 times more polution per gallon than a professional facility. I guess if your a "socialist working for free" the environmental protection laws don't apply to you.
Before you judge me, look at your own actions.
-yea, I don't know of any law that says you can't make money! Good on you for offering to help this school district. Tom
" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
I had really hoped to get some small scale commercial technology into the classroom so that the next generation of biodiesel producers would start with some of the the knowledge that is expensive to learn on the job.
It would be SO much easier for me to teach clients/employees how to produce good fuel if I could demonstrate cause/effect on a small "classroom" scale. To do so on a commercial scale is ever so costly considering the cost of time, oil, and chemicals.
Too often, a consultant such as myself is required to solve relatively basic issues since even a trained Chemist (not familiar with biodiesel production...like I once was) will encounter a costly learning curve.
Thanks biotom. Hopefully they take me up on the offer.
Don't feed the Tilly-troll. EDIT: BWilder, the reference is most certainly not to HelpingHand. Scroll up, you'll figure it out.
Cheers, JohnThis message has been edited. Last edited by: dukegrad98,
I agree that anyone will encounter a rather costly learning curve. You can add engineer to that list too. (Even if the boss expects otherwise sometimes). Something like this could really help a lot for any of them that get into home brewing or even commercial production. So sounds like a really noble venture. Even if you don't get it all right the first time (methanol etc) so long as your safe about it and get the proper testing done they will learn more from their mistakes than anything else.
And never really knew who tilly was but highly doubt HelpingHand is a sock-puppet, just a little defensive sometimes
K my apologies I completely misread that statement then duke. I actually had to have someone point it out to me who you meant so should probably just avoid these tilly references now. That being said the accusation is a bit vague and it could have been a valid comment on 'someone's' part, they may not have even meant offense by it. I didn't think it was openly trolling.
I am a bit confused about this project. I initially thought that the idea was to teach students chemistry, but reading the initial post again I see that students have already made bio in the lab and making soap could also be demonstrated to students.
Is this about the school using students as free labor to save on cleaning costs or turning a profit?
Even if the students get money from the enterprise shouldn't the kids be getting an education in science and not business.
Edition 2 of Lather! did a feature on Vanderbilt University's biodiesel and Ecosuds project. Perhaps the school could simply contact those who put the program together ?
** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.
My appoligies for being defensive.
Making fuel, soap, etc. is good education. IF the business side was emphasized and the school reduced costs that wouldn't be terrible either. Business incorporates math and writing skills, while production utilized math and science. That seem pretty well rounded.
I could imagine a curriculum where problems are give out to the class requiring everyone to do the stoichionetry required for each part of the process. If you want to get more complicated you can do the heat transfer calculations (methanol recovery) as well.
Over the course of a simester students could try to create what they feel are the "best" conditions to make fuel. Toward the end of the year, the entire "collective" process could be tested in the lab (1 complete lab scale reactor showing EVERY step of the process) If the test is successful the class would then get to test their reaction mechanism on a "full size batch" using the school processor.
(While the reactor is not being used by the students, the faculty could produce fuel (and soap) for the school to use.)
(Certainly engineering stamps are needed.)
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