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SAP test for Tom (Hamlin205)
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Tom,
I was able to get to your SAP test this weekend.

I come up with a 35% SAP for your BDG. Using the 35% SAP you can come up with an amount of lye per unit of BDG. Since we are making liquid soap we multiply 35 * .0020 to get .070 SAP. So for a 16oz batch of soap we would use 1.12oz of KOH.

You can also use the KNC SAP Calculator to easily come up with a recipe based on the SAP you have worked out. Here is an example of a BDG liquid soap recipe.

BDG only
16oz Biodiesel Glycerin (BDG) (35% SAP)

Caustic Solution:
1.12oz KOH
4oz Distilled water

Optional:
0.31oz Scent of your choice
Additional Distilled Water (Soap:Water):
6.67oz 60:40 ratio
12oz 50:50 ratio
20oz 40:60 ratio

The KNC SAP Calculator will also let you use other ingredients in your recipe. This example is adding 6% coconut oil for lather.


BDG/Coconut Oil
16oz Biodiesel Glycerin (BDG) (35% SAP)
1oz Coconut Oil

Caustic Solution:
1.39oz KOH
5oz Distilled water

Optional:
0.34oz Scent of your choice
Additional Distilled Water (Soap:Water):
6.33oz 60:40 ratio
12oz 50:50 ratio
20.5oz 40:60 ratio

I took lots of pictures of the process and will be posting the SAP process step by step.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rick:
Sorry for the delay . I thought notifications were left on.
Thanks again for all your help. I am going to try another
way to cook up more than a couple of gallons at a time.
Our Fuel Meister clone just can't generate enough heat to saponify.
Going to try a 55 gallon drum to cook up a whole batch
of 20-30 Gallons of BDG. Will put in the tru soap and water
( about 4-5 gallons ) from a previous water wash as well and SAP
those ingredients. Probably most efficient for us to do it this way.
This uses the water wash instead of having to dispose of it.
Maybe a paint stirrer on a big drill to mix ??
Talk to you soon and again Thanks
Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Will put in the tru soap and water
( about 4-5 gallons ) from a previous water wash as well and SAP
those ingredients. Probably most efficient for us to do it this way.
This uses the water wash instead of having to dispose of it.


Wash water contains methanol. Nice of your guru failing to point that out though. Unflippin' believable !



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No problem Tom,

I hope all is going well and you are moving forward.

You really do not need a lot of heat, the saponification process can be done at Fuel Meister temperatures, will just take a bit longer. But at 120*F you should cook it until your pH has dropped to 10.5 or allow the soap to cure for a week or two. The heat really just speeds things along. Hot processing will also make a clearer soap.

I would not use the wash water to saponify the soap unless this is for the car wash soap we talked about, and then I would label it accordingly.

A paint stirrer works really well to get things going, remember that our BDG is already soap it's just not fully saponified. So mixing is not as important unless you are adding other traditional ingredients for lather as we had talked about.

You can make your own mixer similar to what they have on soapequipment.com.



Happy Soaping Cool


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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By the way,

I have another idea to help keep the cost of your bulk soap down, It's another natural bulk scent. I still like the orange oil the best though.

The orange oil batch is the BDG you sent me to do a SAP value on in the OP.

If you want send me another gallon or two and I will make a batch with this scent and you can tell me what you think.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Legal Eagle:
quote:
Will put in the tru soap and water
( about 4-5 gallons ) from a previous water wash as well and SAP
those ingredients. Probably most efficient for us to do it this way.
This uses the water wash instead of having to dispose of it.


Wash water contains methanol. Nice of your guru failing to point that out though. Unflippin' believable !


Luc:
Rick knows that I demeth the BDG hard in a WBD process.
The BDG I sent him confirmed that .Yeah I know there
is undoubtedly residual so we built a processor ( Kinda like Fuel Farmers Except Metal)
to blow dry and bubble off the rest. Water wash is not SOP here, I resorted to and rigged the capability after getting jammed up with a really soapy batch of fuel. With that in mind the tru soap will be minimal and when added to BDG, it will be tested and processed again. I'm actually getting a little traction with some larger Degreaser opportunities.
Thanks for being so vigilant here and reminding us of a potential problem.
Hope you guys are starting to thaw out up there.

regards
Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Making soap on a large scale will require a lot of mixing, may want to build some kind of mount for a drill and paddle mixer rather than standing there for an hour holding it. I tried to make such a batch a few years ago and gave up because it never seemed to fully saponify even after about 15 minutes of mixing, I let the drum sit and a few months later when I checked on it was fully saponified.



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tom,
If you are talking about only the true soaps from the soapy fuel, you can add those to your BDG and demeth them together.

If you obtained the true soap during the process of removing the methanol from your fuel the true soaps might not need much further processing to remove the remaining methanol.

What applications will your degreaser be used on? There are a few other things you can add to our soaps to bring the pH up, but if you do wish to use high pH soaps they should be used with eye and hand protection and labeled accordingly. This would be for an engine or shop degreaser, not a hand degreaser.

Hand degreaser's rarely need anything added if you have the correct dilution ratio for your soap. In addition the glycerin acts as a solvent so our soaps are naturally great degreasers.

pH, Full Saponification, Dilution and Thickening are the keys to great liquid soap, as I know you are getting the hang of. Your choice of heat or time will ensure full saponification provided you have an accurate SAP value for your BDG.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by freesoul:
Making soap on a large scale will require a lot of mixing, may want to build some kind of mount for a drill and paddle mixer rather than standing there for an hour holding it. I tried to make such a batch a few years ago and gave up because it never seemed to fully saponify even after about 15 minutes of mixing, I let the drum sit and a few months later when I checked on it was fully saponified.


I have seen some really cool Pot Tippers. Some with mixers securely held by a bracket.
Not Cheap !!!!! Easily a couple of GG's !!
The paste phase can take a while and wear you out !!


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tom,
If you use the pre-diluted method you can avoid the paste stage.

If you are going to hot process the liquid you wont need to mix past trace, 10-15 minutes max.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick K:
Tom,
If you use the pre-diluted method you can avoid the paste stage.

If you are going to hot process the liquid you wont need to mix past trace, 10-15 minutes max.

Rick ,
Been on other projects and BDG is backed up.
The Mrs. has been working on small batches on the stove as the Fuel Meister setup couldn't generate enough heat. I can't get her to try the prediluted method. She liked the idea of adding alcohol but didn;t have any on hand. She added Hydrogen Peroxide instead ( about 1/4 cup to 16OZ of BDG and 16 oz of water) She really liked the way it thickened up. Did a quick search and found many recipes that included H202. Will post some pics soon.
Thanks
Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm glad it's working out for her!

The H2O2 should also help make a liqud soap that will work well as a laundry brightening soap. I add a bit to my liquid laundry soap and I think it helps brighten the colors as well as the whites.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Rick K:
I'm glad it's working out for her!

The H2O2 should also help make a liqud soap that will work well as a laundry brightening soap. I add a bit to my liquid laundry soap and I think it helps brighten the colors as well as the whites.


possible you could share one of your liquid laundry soap recipes ??
Been using in our 2 year old front loader the same stuff we take a shower with.
The H202 thickens ,now it's like Homemade Maple Syrup but less viscous than Honey.
( My Wife's homeade Syrup could put Aunt Jemima Out of Business !!!! )
make a soap for syrup trade ??

Wink

Have a good one
regards
Tom


1999 K3500 Dually with a new AMG 6.5TD turned up a bit by John Kennedy
Chevy DMax Totaled thanks to a 20 year old in a Mustang
Mercedes 300CDT
John Deere
On B99.?
 
Location: Decatur, Al | Registered: September 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Oh I really like Homemade Maple Syrup Smile


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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