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Hi Guys, I'm new to this section

I'm looking for a recipie for a engine cleaner, I have loads of Koh glycerol, de-methed. Is it worth saponifieying this or should I just use it as is. Making it into a gel may be an advantage.

What happens to BD if you try to turn into soap as it is such a good solvent?

Cheeers in advance
 
Location: Cork | Registered: December 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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BNG,

I think in your case the best way to create a nice engine cleaner would be to first work out a SAP value for your BDG so you can be sure that the BDG is fully saponified. You can use the information from the following blog post to help you with that.

KNC SAP Test

Coconut oil is an excellent additive for lather which will help lift the dirt.
Olive oil or Oleic acid will add extra cleaning ability.

Both of those will need to be saponified. You can use the KNC Soap Calculator to formulate a recipe, here is one example using the calculator.

16oz Biodiesel Glycerin (BDG) (25% SAP)
2oz Coconut Oil
2oz Olive Oil

Caustic Solution:
1.71oz KOH
6oz Distilled water

Optional:
0.41oz Scent of your choice
Additional Distilled Water (Soap:Water):
7.33oz 60:40 ratio
14oz 50:50 ratio
24oz 40:60 ratio

To add additional cleaning ability you could use Orange Oil as your scent. Orange oil is an excellent cleaner in it's own rite.

You still want to dilute the soap and then thicken it. Concentrated soap can actually do less work than properly diluted soap that has been thickened.

There are several methods you can use to thicken your soap. Sodium (NaOH) BDG, Borax, Xanthem Gum, Guar gum, or even plain table salt can help thicken your soap.

This should be a good start, let us know if you need some help moving it along.

Happy Soaping Smile


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I will PM you with the simplest way to accomplish what you want to do.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Recipe with additional ingredients to help meet the task of engine degreasing.

16oz Biodiesel Glycerin (BDG) (25% SAP)
2oz Coconut Oil
2oz Olive Oil
.5oz Essential oil

Caustic Solution:
1.71oz KOH
6oz Distilled water

Basic saponified BDG recipe

16oz Biodiesel Glycerin (BDG) (25% SAP)

Caustic Solution:
0.80oz KOH
3oz Distilled water

Optional:
0.30oz Scent of your choice


Again the more accurate your SAP value the better soap you will make. Fully saponified BDG smells better and cleans better than under saponified BDG. Too much caustic and the soap will be caustic hot and possibly dangerous. Always check your pH -- especially if you are going to cut corners when making BDG soap.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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BNG- you can either just mix your glycerin with water to thin it out or use a little more KOH in the water to make it nicer to use. We recently had a nasty oil storage tote we needed to get clean and just dumped in some glycerin and sprayed it into a froth with a hose nozzle and it cleaned it right up.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Oils become soap with caustic and water. The saponified oils (soaps) have certain properties. For engine oil degreasing added lather (saponified coconut oil) and cleaning ability (saponified olive oil) will help.

Palmolive - the original product was saponified palm kernel oil (similar to coconut) and saponified olive oil. Hence the name Palm Olive.

Many current engine degreasers are in fact... Thickened orange oil. So I would have to say Orange essential oil would not be a useless additive.

Just one example of an Orange Oil Degreaser -- http://www.cleanitsupply.com/p...bottle-oso-01mn.aspx.

But as I have stated basic saponified BDG will work just not as well for the engine oil degreasing from the OP.

I have posted recipes for both... where are your recipes?

Engine oil is much different chemically than the veggie oil spill you experienced. In addition the engine oil will be baked onto the engine

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Lather lifts the dirt and allows the water to more easily wash it away.

As stated several times basic saponified BDG will do the job. Adding these ingredients will make a more effective soap and are in no way unnecessary.

BNG - Again relating to the original post. Posted on this thread are two recipes for BDG soap that can help you out. One for basic saponified BDG and one with additional properties that have been tailored for engine degreasing.

Back to the OP. He is asking for a good recipe. I believe he is asking for more than just saponified BDG. BNG is also asking about how to make it thicker (gel).

quote:
What happens to BD if you try to turn into soap as it is such a good solvent?


Guess we all missed this part of the OP. BNG - the BD actually will work better as BD than converting it into soap. In addition BD itself will be a much better engine degreaser than any of the soap mentioned in this post.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks All,

So am I correct in saying that

1. De-methed BDG makes a excellent cleaner by itself but I need to be carefull it is not too caustic.

2. De-methed BDG with the excess caustic, oil, BD etc turned into soap will make it a better cleaner and safe.

3. Adding a scent and other ingredients will improve further and make it more pleasant to work with

4. BD is better than all of the above, however from experience I need to be careful as it may dissolve some rubber, plastic and paint etc.

Therefore the task will decide which option to go for.

I do like to experiment so I'll be trying everything. Long term it would be nice to sell some.
 
Location: Cork | Registered: December 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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1. De-methed BDG makes a excellent cleaner by itself but I need to be carefull it is not too caustic.

Yes, and an accurate SAP value will help. Full saponification is also important.

2. De-methed BDG with the excess caustic, oil, BD etc turned into soap will make it a better cleaner and safe.

Yes, fully saponified BDG cleans much better. Remember BD on it's own is an excellent degreaser.

3. Adding a scent and other ingredients will improve further and make it more pleasant to work with.

True, but some ingredients are better than others. Citrus Oil will add cleaning ability some others may not.

4. BD is better than all of the above, however from experience I need to be careful as it may dissolve some rubber, plastic and paint etc.

Yes but as you said for specific applications.

If you are interested I would be willing to send you some of the degreaser I sell using a similar recipe.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The answer to the original question (which was about an engine degreaser BTW) is simple, and does not require anything but the knowledge of the basic science of biodiesel and its glycerol by-product to be adequately answered.

There are no issues with paint (unless the engine itself is painted) or rubber or seals or anything, therefore addressing the question isn't complicated, which I have been happy to do via PM.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick K:
BNG,



Optional:
0.41oz Scent of your choice
Additional Distilled Water (Soap:Water):
7.33oz 60:40 ratio
14oz 50:50 ratio
24oz 40:60 ratio


You still want to dilute the soap and then thicken it. Concentrated soap can actually do less work than properly diluted soap that has been thickened.

There are several methods you can use to thicken your soap. Sodium (NaOH) BDG, Borax, Xanthem Gum, Guar gum, or even plain table salt can help thicken your soap.



How do I work out how much to dilute the soap by? is that the additional distilled water in the recipe?

Can I just keep adding Borax until it is as thick as I want?
 
Location: Cork | Registered: December 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Yes these values are additional water to use after saponification for the specific dilution ratio.
I would go 50:50 and then add the borax.

You will want to dissolve the borax into distilled water. 1 part borax 2 parts boiling water, Add this to your room temperature diluted soap. Once you know what it takes for your desired thickness you can go ahead and do it while the soap is hot. It helps if you make the soap just a bit caustic hot because the borax will act as a buffer and lower the pH of the soap. Too much of the borax solution and the soap can become cloudy.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks, for all the info, the books are good too. I've made some really good liquid soap, the larther is quite impressive in the hand soap.

I've a question about PH.

After saponification the Ph is about 10.

Would it be better to reduce this to 7. Just from the T.V adds ''Ph neutral kinder to skin" and all that or will i be losing cleaning power?

I was thinking of using citric acid.

Cheers
 
Location: Cork | Registered: December 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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PH10 is within the range of acceptable.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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BNG,

Natural soaps have a pH between 9 and 10.5. If you want to reduce the pH you can use citric acid, boric acid, or borax just to name a few options. Once the pH drops much below 9 the soap will start to cloud. This is because some of the soaps are being converted back to fatty acids. At a pH of 7 the soap will not clean as well and may also feel greasy.

When making bar soap superfatting or discounting is done to leave some un-reacted oil in the soap. This is not usually done with liquid soaps when you are shooting for a transparent soap. By using citric acid to lower the pH of your soap you will have a similar effect to superfatting or discounting.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks,

I think I'll get a ph meter and make sure I'm always less than 10, just having problems with the ph strips giving peace of mind at the moment, my hands are not very sensitive.

Is there anything to be careful of when buying a ph meter or will a cheap one of ebay work?

Ben
 
Location: Cork | Registered: December 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The only real issue with PH meters is that they MUST be calibrated regularly and the wand stored in neutral buffer solution to keep it fresh. You can get buffer solutions at any pet shop where they have aquariums for tropical fish. You will need a 7 (neutral) a 10 (alkaline) and a 3 (acidic).
The meter itself will have little screws on it to make adjustments for calibrations.

This one is simple and works well.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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the problem I had with my prior pH meter is keeping the measuring part immersed in solution, inevitably it will evaporate if you don't keep it sealed. I thought a great idea was putting the whole meter in a nalgene water bottle with just enough solution to keep the probes wet...until I opened it and found the unit inoperable because the electronics were exposed to too much moisture.

The one LE pointed out should be easier to keep, just get a container with a soft plastic lid and poke just a big enough hole to fit the end into.



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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