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I am in need of a large quantity of liquid BDG soap for cleaning engine blocks and greasy garage floors. What would happen if the soap process is done without de- mething the by product? Heating and waiting for 10 gallons to de-meth is not on my favored ta-do list. Note, reasonable safety precautions during the soap process and use will be used. Thanks in advance.

WDP
 
Registered: April 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If all you want it for is an engine cleaner don't waste your time making full on soap, although you will need to demeth the glycerin so that it is no longer toxic. Then use a simple ratio of 50/50 glycerin/water if processed with NaOH or a 60/40 glycerin/water ratio if processed with KOH.
The partially saponified glycerin layer makes an excellent degreaser as is straight our of reaction.
If you sellect to leave the methanol in it you run the risks associated with the toxicity of the methanol.DO NOT SELL OR GIVE AWAY ANy PRODUCT THAT STILL CONTAINS METHANOL to unsuspecting people.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks, I was going to make soap as the NaOh BDG is solid and not useable as such. If I mix it, will the 50-50 water mix stay liquid at room temp?

WDP
 
Registered: April 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
If I mix it, will the 50-50 water mix stay liquid at room temp?


If it is vegetable oil based glycerin yes, if tallow then you may need to increase the amount of water to glycerin ratio. When you say that it is solid is this from glycerin left in a closed conatiner or is it open to the air? Also what is the original feedstock?

The simplest way to get degreaser is while performing the demething process. Once the methanol is rwemoved then it is a matter of simply pouring the liquid glycerin straight into the waiting water volume in the container and when filled you merely shake it up a bit and you're done.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The Glycerin layer is a combination of glycerine, methanol and soap and no doubt a small amount of other things.
The amount of soap present is largely dependent on the titration of the oil. The higher the titration the more the soap and the more likely the glycerin layer will go solid if you reacted with NaOH.
Also, as Legal Eagle has pointed out, the glycerin layer is more likely to go solid harder and quicker if you were reacting tallow.
In my experience all "glycerin", no matter whether animal or vegetable derived eventually goes solid with time if NaOH was the reactant and extra water was not added.
You will have to do some tests to determine how your glycerin will behave.
quote:
Originally posted by WDP:
Thanks, I was going to make soap as the NaOh BDG is solid and not useable as such. If I mix it, will the 50-50 water mix stay liquid at room temp?
WDP
 
Registered: June 27, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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WDP,

If you are making your liquid soap from NaOH BDG, It would of benefit to fully saponify the BDG with KOH. In doing this you will turn any unsaponified ingredient into KOH "Liquid" Soap. This will help keep your soap from turning into "Snot" over time after you add the water.

The average amount of saponifiable ingredients in your BDG is 25%-30%. Although I have seen higher and lower numbers. In fact I have even seen a negative SAP value of up to -11%. The percentage of saponifiable ingredients left in your BDG is equivalent to your SAP value.

I would make an attempt to get the methanol out of the BDG before you make it into soap, However if you are making shop soap I would label it accordingly. Windshield washer fluid in the winter time is about 50% methanol. I would worry about the toxicity but if it is property labeled and used it should be okay. Label it in a way as to inform the user it contains methanol and should be used with hand protection and in a well ventilated area. Again... I would take some time to remove at least some of the methanol.

Back to saponification...
If you fully saponify your BDG it is likely that 50% water will work for you even if there is a portion of BDG that is from animal fats.

The easiest way to Saponify is just after you have finished demething your BDG when it's still hot. Have ready your caustic solution of water and KOH. Simply add your BDG to that and mix, it will take anywhere from 1 hour to a day if your BDG is above 170*F and up to two weeks at room temperature.

The last and probably most important thing is to check the pH of the finished soap prior to use. You want to be sure the pH is at or below 10.5 or you should add a warning label to indicate the soap is caustic.

You can use a mixture of citric acid, boric acid, borax or lemon juice to adjust your pH if it is over 10.5. If transparency is a concern for you keep the pH of your soap above 9.5.

Another option is to add some coconut oil, palm kernel oil, castor oil, fatty acid or even some of your filtered veggie oil and saponify it with KOH. This will give you a higher ratio of KOH soaps and thus help keep the soap liquid. Soap made from NaOH and KOH together is called Hybrid soap. Hybrid soap can also be made with NaOH BDG and KOH BDG.

To better help you work out how much caustic to use you can use the KNC Soap Calculator.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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