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As some of you know, I've been making and doling out soap for a while, and thanks to Black Crown and Knicely pdf books and advice, my soap has been freely cleaning up my school's chem and art departments, ag shops, and bus garage. A few paying markets have appeared and until I can prove the safety of the product, I've been hesitant to sell it. My high school is wanting to buy it in bulk, and add more cleaning jobs. Local Red Cross, State Trooper's garage, Town Transportation Dept, have all asked about it--I live in a small town and word gets around, plus local business people are in my school and know I make biodiesel.

So, I sent off a sample to a USDA lab. 6100 ppm meth and 41% gly content. .6% meth level I believe. I distill BDG and reuse methanol. Then take temps higher to 300 plus, until no vapor and gly ready to burn it seems. Lab chemist said I could probably get meth ppm lower. I need to add vacuum to my distiller and maybe longer on the big barrel, open container boil-it-like-crazy last stage.

I am looking for any published data on the safe meth numbers. I know about Dickinson College,PA 5% HZMAT level. I would like to put my hands on data like this to show my supt and any other interested party that I truly am refining the gly and making it safe. Had one person google BDG and straight up ask me about how I removed methanol. A university with Biotech lab is willing to test further and help characterize product. They may be able to point me to the info I need. We have a meeting set up later this week. Their fees are reasonable IMO.

Also, any info on this soap for car, RV, boat wash, ph around 10 and long term use on vehicles?

Thanks and will update when I get more info from university--they also make biodiesel and soap. I hope their info is useful to us all, if anyone interested.
 
Registered: February 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Congratulations on the interest in your soaps!

It will be nice to have some good numbers about what is left in our soaps and to also have some official information about what level of methanol is acceptable.

Great work Smile

Happy Soaping!


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One other thing that was mentioned to me when I inquired about this in Canada with regard to BDG was allergy concerns. Especially for yellow grease of unknown origin.

The only other response I got was that anything with over 1% methanol had to be labelled as toxic. Which doesn't really help with 'usage' since the allowable amount would be much lower than that I would imagine.
 
Registered: February 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That is a good point BWilder.
Since in some cases we may not know if there are oils like peanut oil we should put something like "may contain soaps from peanut oil" on the label.

So at 1% .5% or .6% still is quite high. I am sending some of my soaps out to the same place here soon, I use vacuum distillation so I am hoping for a much lower result.

I hope that the fact that it's vacuum distilled and diluted brings those numbers way down.

I wonder what percentage of methanol is in wine and beer that is about 5%-6% alcohol, that might be a good number to shoot for.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is what I found on a home brewing site.

http://homedistiller.org/methanol.htm

quote:

Methanol is formed when fermenting beverages high in pectins - eg grapes and berries. Starting with a grain or sugar based wort, in a clean fermentor with a yeast culture from a well aereated source will result in small/none formed.
Carl from Hambletonbard (makers of Alcotec yeasts) details ..
Methanol, you will typically get around 2 or 3 parts per million (or milligrams per litre if you prefer) of methanol produced during fermentation of a standard 6kg type Alcotec - this is extremely low even compared to commercial products. We don't have a great deal of data on methanol because whenever we have tested for it we have got extremely low results.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick K:


I wonder what percentage of methanol is in wine and beer that is about 5%-6% alcohol, that might be a good number to shoot for.


Essentially zero.

The only 'legal' liquor that I know of with any methanol in it is a Italian wine that isn't allowed to be sold outside of it's little village and it has 500ppm methanol if I remember correctly, although now I can't find the wine article I was reading about it.
 
Registered: February 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Am I thinking right then, based on added dilution of my koh? The sample I had tested was very thick and would need to be diluted more. So, if I added 25-50% more water, the meth level would go down on ppm and be below the .6% that came back on my thick gly soap?
 
Registered: February 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes,
The methanol content will be proportional to the amount of water you use to dilute the soap.

Once diluted you can thicken the soap.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ok, makes sense. So the glycerin content would also go down as well. Also, does Borax add any "unwanted" or irritating elements, anything that would hamper a "green" cleaning product?
 
Registered: February 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Borax should be okay but you can also use guar gum or xanthem gum. Vermont organics uses guar gum as their thickener I believe.


-Rick

http://www.knicenclean.com your single-most largest free BDG soaping content on the internet.
SAP Testing, Ingredient Properties, Soap Glossary and Recipes just to name a few.

Making Biodiesel Byproduct Soap Learn how to use your biodiesel byproducts to make great bar and liquid soap!!!

"Closing the loop on biodiesel production one bar at a time!"

Beware of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 
Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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