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Aiding cleanup efforts in the Gulf oil spill
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Ok, so last week I was thinking about what the residents and wildlife in the Gulf will be facing in the coming weeks and months, and I have read about Dawn dishwashing liquid being used in the wildlife cleanup efforts- and I thought our soap/degreaser would work just as well if not better!

I spoke with Luc (Legal Eagle) and with his guidance have come up with the idea that we are going to send down a sample- 55 gallon drum of degreaser, just de-methed KOH glycerin with water added. I have a contact in the MS area who will receive it and we hope to get it on a truck next week.

Luc spoke with Andy at Rolfquo biodiesel who can potentially supply 20,000 liters packaged in IBC totes at a minimal cost of .20 per liter. We would need to find someone down there who could distribute and make payment for that, as well as provide transportation. So far all my efforts have pointed me to BP and Deepwater Horizon unified command and I have submitted our information.

What I am looking for right now is trucking for a 600 lb 55 gallon drum from 18944 to 39520.

Also I would put word out to anyone with an excess capacity and ability to deliver their KOH glycerin to anyone along the gulf coast. Once it is demethed it is simple to make a recipe of 60% glycerin to 40% water when the glycerin is still hot. Below is one contact I just spoke with who will gladly accept smaller amounts.

Folks- lets try to pitch in and help. Imagine the press- biodiesel byproduct helps clean up petroleum spill. Please contact me directly at buckscountybiodiesel@gmail.com or 267-261-3825 if you can help with our trucking needs or a contact to distribute larger amounts. Or ideally if there is a commercial biodiesel producer in that area, I put a message in to Vanguard Synfuels in LA.

I have never been involved in something like this and appreciate any guidance or advice.

Andy Rumbold



Princess S. Obriot
President
Make Mine Bluegreen Inc
3008 Bluff Blvd
Holiday, Florida 34691
727-967-4754



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just a thought but wouldn't it be cheaper to ship it as straight glycerin and have them add water there. Avoid the extra cost of shipping all that water around.
 
Registered: February 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by BWilder:
Just a thought but wouldn't it be cheaper to ship it as straight glycerin and have them add water there. Avoid the extra cost of shipping all that water around.


It would be, but the issue would be the glycerin would solidify once it cooled unless you add water. By having it premixed the totes could be offloaded right onto smaller trucks and sent to where they were needed.

Thanks for your reply!



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I know you guys are trying to help and for that you must be applauded. However you couldn't use caustic based cleaners on birds, it would dissolve their feathers.

It might work on the oil slick, but the bad news here is that the dispersants used by the oil companies causes the oil to sink to the bottom it doesn't go away. So all the bottom feeders get wiped out.

Strangely burning seems the the best way to get rid of it with the least damage to the environment.

I hope the winds stay favorable and it doesn't come ashore

BP used to be called the British Iranian oil company and their refusal to give the Iranians any of the money they were making is what started all the trouble between Iran and the US.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
I know you guys are trying to help and for that you must be applauded. However you couldn't use caustic based cleaners on birds, it would dissolve their feathers.

It might work on the oil slick, but the bad news here is that the dispersants used by the oil companies causes the oil to sink to the bottom it doesn't go away. So all the bottom feeders get wiped out.

Strangely burning seems the the best way to get rid of it with the least damage to the environment.

I hope the winds stay favorable and it doesn't come ashore

BP used to be called the British Iranian oil company and their refusal to give the Iranians any of the money they were making is what started all the trouble between Iran and the US.


ALL soap is "caustic based", however the degreaser from the glycerin layer no longer contains any active caustic in that it has all been used up during the reaction to partially saponify the FFA's and is, as such, of no consequence to wild life, be they bird or animal.

I believe the stuff you are refering to is the "acid" based (actually aqueous potassium hydroxide) solution used in many applications as a "degreaser", particularly in the trucking industry to clean the exterior of road grimed trailers. This same solution is used in other industrial applications as well, and is quite strong, and would without a doubt "melt" or at least harm birds and/or animals, but that is not the case with the demethed biodiesel glycerin layer. Were it not the case then we would be putting ourselves and our loved ones at risk of caustic burns.

The basic principle of saponification is that the caustic used is neutralised during the process; quicker rather than later if used in a hot process, but done just as surely when using a curing period and the cold processed or semi cold processed method as is the case with most of the biodiesel glycerin soap making done with our type of soap making baring any additional ingredient additives.

So all that to say that the glycerin layer is not "caustic based" any longer. Not too sure about that ? Take a pail full of properly demethed glycerin and stick your wet hand in it for several minutes, then take it out and leave it open to the air for another several minutes. If it is caustic active it will begin by itching and then burning. It won't.

The glycerin layer is only parially saponified, although, and ALL the caustic used has been neutralised during the transesterification process. The residual methanol poses a bigger concern than the used up caustic does.

Smile



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Freesoul they don't use soap they use detergent and have been for nearly 100 years.

How can you have an acid cleaner with KOH in it, wouldn't the acid and alkali react to make salt.

Glycerin is not miscible with fossil oil but is with water soap does not dissolve oil either it would just be more pollution.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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As much as I applaud your idea have you thought about the practicalities:

First, do you declare the exact composition of your "demethed glycerol" and is it fully safe, tested and approved for use with wildlife. Putting your hand into the stuff and seeing if it burns is not an accepted test for exposure as far as I am aware.

Second, do you have all the required data and documentation such as Health, Safety and Environmental etc. most people have not done full chemical analysis on their "glycerol".

Third, what about liability insurance. Hope you are well covered for someone to use your "product" for a cleaning procedure for which it was not designed.

Remember as far as the environmental authorities are concerned there only contact with glycerol from biodiesel plants is probably when fish have been killed by some plant dumping or discharging their byproduct into a river or similar.
 
Location: East Yorkshire | Registered: January 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
BP used to be called the British Iranian oil company and their refusal to give the Iranians any of the money they were making is what started all the trouble between Iran and the US.


The thing that started the trouble between the US and Iran was our support of the Sha even though we knew of his brutality against his own people.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by fabricator:
quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
BP used to be called the British Iranian oil company and their refusal to give the Iranians any of the money they were making is what started all the trouble between Iran and the US.


The thing that started the trouble between the US and Iran was our support of the Sha even though we knew of his brutality against his own people.


Yes but,


Mossadeq broke off negotiations with AIOC in July 1951 when the AIOC threatened to pull its employees out of Iran and warned tanker owners that "the receipts from the Iranian government would not be accepted on the world market." The British ratcheted up the pressure on the Iranian government and explored the possibility of an invasion to occupy the oil area. US President Harry S. Truman and US ambassador to Iran Henry F. Grady opposed intervention in Iran but needed Britain's support for the Korean War. Efforts by the U.S. through the International Court of Justice were made to settle the dispute, but a 50/50 profit-sharing arrangement, with recognition of nationalization, was rejected by both the British government and Prime Minister Mossadegh.

As the months went on, the crisis became acute. By mid-1952, an attempt by the Shah to replace Mossadegh backfired and led to riots nationwide; Mossadegh returned with even greater power. At the same time however, his coalition was "fraying," as Britain’s boycott of Iranian oil eliminated a major source of government revenue, and made Iranians "poorer and unhappier by the day.

By 1953 both the US and the UK both had new, more anti-communist and more interventionist administrations. The United States no longer opposed intervention in Iran. Britain was unable to subvert Mossadegh as its embassy and officials had been evicted from Iran in October 1952, but successfully appealed in the U.S. to anti-communist sentiments, depicting both Mossadegh and Iran as unstable and likely to fall to communism in their weakened state. If Iran fell, the "enormous assets" of "Iranian oil production and reserves" would fall into Communist control, as would "in short order the other areas of the Middle East". In August the American CIA with the help of bribes to politicians, soldiers, mobs, and newspapers, and contacts/information from the British embassy and secret service, organized a coup. The shah issued an edict removing Mosaddeq from power and General Fazlollah Zahedi, led tanks to Mosaddeq's residence overthrowing him from office.

Got the above from here

BP have a long history of being real bastards.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
BP have a long history of being real bastards.


Yeah, and those Iranians are historically real angels. Listening to their so-called president speak is funnier than watching Saturday Night Live, and I mean the old SNL twenty years ago, when it was actually funny.

This thread makes me want to go watch "Back to the Future" again. "The Iranians!!"

Cheers, John
 
Registered: June 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
Freesoul they don't use soap they use detergent and have been for nearly 100 years.

How can you have an acid cleaner with KOH in it, wouldn't the acid and alkali react to make salt.

Glycerin is not miscible with fossil oil but is with water soap does not dissolve oil either it would just be more pollution.


I suggest you go back and read my post again please, this is not an acid cleaner.

Please refrain from getting into a discussion on petroleum and politics, I am trying to help and spread the word on our awesome liquid soap/degreaser and hope that it helps the tremendous environmental tragedy that we have going on down in the gulf.

Yes this will have an MSDS with it, we have been using this soap for well over a year now with no reported issues and we do have liability insurance. Thanks for your concern!



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Freesoul I read your post again as you suggested and you say,


quote:
I believe the stuff you are refering to is the "acid" based (actually aqueous potassium hydroxide) solution used in many applications as a "degreaser",


So I will ask again how can you have an acid cleaner with KOH in it, wouldn't the acid and alkali react to make salt.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Want to help, get a haircut. BBC
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
Freesoul I read your post again as you suggested and you say,


quote:
I believe the stuff you are refering to is the "acid" based (actually aqueous potassium hydroxide) solution used in many applications as a "degreaser",


So I will ask again how can you have an acid cleaner with KOH in it, wouldn't the acid and alkali react to make salt.


I don't know, thats not what our glycerin cleaner is.



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
quote:
Please refrain from getting into a discussion on petroleum and politics

Should we discuss censorship and controlling what others post?


Start your own thread, and please respect mine.



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The subject line says "Aiding cleanup efforts in the Gulf oil spill". If you don't want a free discussion of all aspects relating to that subject then go back and edit your subject line to what you really want to discuss.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by john galt:
The subject line says "Aiding cleanup efforts in the Gulf oil spill". If you don't want a free discussion of all aspects relating to that subject then go back and edit your subject line to what you really want to discuss.


And its in the "Making Soap from Glycerin byproduct forum"

Do you have someone regularly pissing in your breakfast cereal? Confused

(thats a rhetorical question)

Anyways I am trying to arrange transport for a 55 gallon drum, we have gotten about $70 in donations so far. Someone from the audobon society contacted me, they will be receiving the glycerin degreaser. I hope it helps them



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
BP used to be called the British Iranian oil company
Incorrect

quote:
and their refusal to give the Iranians any of the money they were making
Incorrect

quote:
is what started all the trouble between Iran and the US.
Incorrect
 
Registered: April 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Terrowin:
quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
BP used to be called the British Iranian oil company
Incorrect

The Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC) was founded in 1908 following the discovery of a large oil field in Masjed Soleiman, Iran. It was the first company using the oil reserves of the Middle East. APOC was renamed Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) in 1935 and eventually became the British Petroleum Company (BP) in 1954, as one root of the BP Company today. wiki

quote:
and their refusal to give the Iranians any of the money they were making
Incorrect

quote:
is what started all the trouble between Iran and the US.
Incorrect


Terrowin you are correct in the first part they where called Anglo Persian/Iranian not British Iranian sorry about the typo.

A simple Google search will show that what I have said is true or you could read the wiki article on them, or one of the many books written about their dastardly deeds.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I believe most of the information in this particular thread to be true. But I would be remiss if I did not say that it deeply saddens me that "wikipedia" -- where pretty much anyone can post pretty much anything -- has become a referenced source in the mainstream.

Cheers, John
 
Registered: June 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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