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Loosing prime, 2002 TdI golf
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I'm posting for a friend on this one, but I thought maybe this forum could help. I have a friend with a 2002 Golf TDI with about 150K on it. Last winter they were running ULSD when the car had some big problems (timing belt related... you can guess what happened). The car sat all winter. Fast forward to this spring, the car is fixed and back on the road. They switch back to homebrew B100 and start to have problems with the car loosing prime (it seems) if it sits for more than a few hours. It will be hard to start, or may start, stumble, and die, then take a little cranking to start again. Once running I'm told it works great.

My question is, where should they START looking? Obviously it could be a leak anywhere allowing air to get in, but are their some hoses or fittings that have more problems then others? They have replaced the fuel filter, but so far that's it.

What should be the first course of action? I am used to the Gm 6.2 and now a cummins, so the TDI isn't my shadetree specialtys.

Thanks,
Liam


Vermont Home Brewer (learning)
 
Location: Vermont | Registered: August 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Did the dealer and other mechanic actually bleed the system as it should be done? This involves using a pump to pull the fuel through the fuel filter, then hooking up to the fuel pump and pull it through the pump and then opening injectors #1 and 2 and bleeding them.

I had the same thing happen with my 2003 Beetle and it was not until we did the above process was I able to get all of the air out of the line. Many dealers bypass all of this by filling the filter and it was usually run for a short period of time as yours did (and mine). It took us about 45 minutes to fully bleed the system.

If this does not work, let us know.
 
Registered: June 11, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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is that to say that the proper way to replace the fuel filter is to use this method? Simply running the car for a few hours (driving) won't work any small bubbles through the system?

What did they use for a pump?

Thanks.


Vermont Home Brewer (learning)
 
Location: Vermont | Registered: August 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Running the car will not get all of the bubbles out of the system. I ran mine for several days (short distances) thinking it would correct the problem. As I live in a rural area, if it cut off, I could leave it in someone's driveway for a while and then it would finally start. It was not until I did this that the problem was corrected.

I do not know the name of the pump, but Advance or AutoZone should know what it is. It is used to bleed the brake lines of large trucks as well. Also, can be used to change the oil in your car as it will draw the oil out through the tube and you do not have to go in from underneath. However, the one used for this has a larger capacity than the one used for brakes and fuel. The cost is about $30.

I will try to find my detailed information, and pm it to you. It has been awhile.
 
Registered: June 11, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Driving it any distance should clear the lines of air. So it's either sucking air in again somewhere, or like my 6.5 it was electric fuel pump not holding its prime whenever it sat overnight. I fixed that by putting a check valve in line back at the tank. That was cheaper than replacing a pump that otherwise is still working good.
Good luck.
 
Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I drove mine about 100 miles and it did not fix the problem. I would sure try the simple fix first of bleeding it properly.

Go to Fredstdiclub.com and you will read what I am talking about.

I tried everything else first, then went back to the simple explanation.

"if it sounds like horse hooves, look for a horse"
 
Registered: June 11, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I had the same problem with my 2001 VW Golf TDI. The solution was to change the Pump Head O-Ring with a Viton seal. You can find it here - http://www.dieselgeek.com/servlet/Detail?no=430
 
Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: December 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sheepfarmer and adamrc gave good advise.
There are additional sources of air that can leak into a fuel systema nd cause your symptoms.
1. O-ring under fuel filter.
2. Injection pump main shaft seal.
3. Small Inter-injector lines.

4.Could also have a leak at any point between the tank sender and the fuel filter that will suck air in, cause it's under vacumn.

5. Also a cracked fuel sender. It leaks when the tank is near empty.

Fuel leaks can occur at the injection pump Head, Top Cover, and Quantity Adjuster

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jburke,


1-tank Elsbett VW TDI , 208,000 WVO miles.
http://ctbiodzl.freeshell.org/votdi.html
and a '92 F-250 with only a FPHE
 
Location: Ct,USA | Registered: November 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowB:
Driving it any distance should clear the lines of air. So it's either sucking air in again somewhere, or like my 6.5 it was electric fuel pump not holding its prime whenever it sat overnight. I fixed that by putting a check valve in line back at the tank. That was cheaper than replacing a pump that otherwise is still working good.
Good luck.


hey shadow, do you think you could elaborate on this a little more. My car is doing the same thing that everyone in this thread is describing. Trying to figure what the fastest cheapest thing to do is to fix it. Any help would be great. Thanks
 
Registered: November 19, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I had similar issues in my 2001 Jetta TDI after a filter change. Had a lot of air in the clear injector pump feed line. Couldn't get engine to fire. I took a hand held vacuum pump called a mity vac and hooked it to the fuel return line coming from the engine going into the temp controlled t fitting on the filter. I pumped the mity vac until I was drawing fuel through the whole injector pump feed line, and fuel coming out the return line into the jar trap on the mity vac. After that I rolled over the engine and it fired right up. I was still getting a lot of air bubbles traveling through the clear line. Then I started checking the fittings on the filter. I found that the line coming from the fuel tank to the filter was not fitting tight enough. I got rid of the stock springy clamp and put a regular worm gear clamp on the line. When I snugged that up, no more air bubbles. That's a good cheap place to start. Check all fittings, especially the T fitting.
Good luck,
Nick
 
Location: western wi | Registered: September 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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nickwi outlined a good way to find air leaks that get in when the system is running and under vacumn.
Put in a clear section of hose, or create one and move it around the system. Not here, Not here, ok now I see bubbles, locates it quick. Also check the O-ring under the filter "T".

But the OP is having a different problem. Likely the system is purged of air after running it awhile. Thats what the fuel return does. If the engine won't, or is hard to start after sitting all night, it's because air was drawn in, allowing fuel to return to the lower tank.
The cause is usually a leak in the fuel injection pump. But it can be the return lines.
I don't know an easy way to tell which of 4 i.p. seals is leaking. The top cover seal is easy enough with a dieselgeek triangle socket. The head seal O-ring can be replaced DIY, but it's not for the faintofheart. go to tdiclub.com or dieselgeek for parts and HOW-TO. If it still leaks after that, it is the main shaft seal and you now have to remove the i.p.

Switching back and forth between LSD/ULSD and B100 has been reported to cause the seals to shrink.
This is not a B100 issue, but a high vs. low aromatics issue. Try to avoid it.


1-tank Elsbett VW TDI , 208,000 WVO miles.
http://ctbiodzl.freeshell.org/votdi.html
and a '92 F-250 with only a FPHE
 
Location: Ct,USA | Registered: November 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I had similar on my landrover discovery 300 tdi recently-the fuel lines were emptying on switch off,with air pouring in the lines.In my case turned out to be my lift pump was letting in air-(diaphram eaten by bio)-new lift pump and back to normal performance.You need to find the source of the air leak (easier said than done)-good luck
 
Location: UK | Registered: October 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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The 2 main places to look are the injection pump, feel under it. If it's wet, you have a seal issue. I had this last year. The other place is the thermo t on the top of the fuel filtre, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS change the o rings. Even with that, they still can leak.
 
Location: Yes | Registered: May 28, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I use a Vampire Pump on my Hummer and Beetle. Works perfect.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/vacuum-pump.php
 
Location: Decatur, TX | Registered: February 09, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sheepfarmer1208:
I drove mine about 100 miles and it did not fix the problem. I would sure try the simple fix first of bleeding it properly.

Go to Fredstdiclub.com and you will read what I am talking about.

I tried everything else first, then went back to the simple explanation.

"if it sounds like horse hooves, look for a horse"


Yeah, the Fredstdiclub.com talks about what, and what is your reply "if it sounds like horse hooves, look for a horse" express? I am confused.


Never be defeated
 
Registered: March 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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